Continue with Maths & Science in English?

[Apekjolly 0]

Recently, a writers association in Malaysia, Gapena, made a police report against the Ministry of Education for using English to teach Maths and Science in English.

Firstly, what do you people think about making a police report over such a matter?

Secondly, do you people think teaching Maths and Science in English should be continued or should it be reverted to using the local languages?

[beautifulgown 0]

apekjolly,

I read the news. so ridiculous la!! I don't know what's the purpose for him to lodge this case to police station. Why?

I strong agree to continue teaching Maths & Science in English. My nieces are so happy that these two subjects are teach in English and they told me it is so useful for them instead of learning them by using BM.

If I have a choice, I prefer all teaching subjects back to English medium instead of BM. Just look at the students in pre-uni .. only good students with good english, the average students hardly to understand the term that was written in English.

Let me share an experience when I'm teaching in Curtin. I found lots of BM words in students' answer, haahha they don't know how to spell the words in English but they are so familiar with BM! Another experience is when I'm teaching in college, sigh .. even worst! students are majority don't understand English alto they got a credit! I doubt on their grade. how to teach them? I'm still teaching them in English and they fail miserably, end up whose fault? my fault because I didn't try my best to pass them

I don't want my child next time telling me, mummy computer's mouse is calls tikus! :wacko3:

[bunnyNwife 0]

Recently, a writers association in Malaysia, Gapena, made a police report against the Ministry of Education for using English to teach Maths and Science in English.

Firstly, what do you people think about making a police report over such a matter?

Secondly, do you people think teaching Maths and Science in English should be continued or should it be reverted to using the local languages?

This is not the 1st case. Earlier on, there was a Malay SPM student filed a suit against the Govt for causing him to have lousy grade in his Math & Science by teaching the subjects in English and seek for MONETARY compensation!!!

[daddyo 0]

This whole maths & science in english thingy has gone waaaayyyyyyy overboard for many people.

For 1, I think those Gapena people are really, really, really immature! It is always a good thing to learn and master another language, don't you think? So, what's wrong with teaching of maths and science in english? If anything, it provides more time to practice the language so that we can be better at it.

As for the argument that it will degrade the status of Bahasa Malaysia as the national language is really nonsensical! How can it degrade the status? Communication is only effective when both sides can understand each other. If you are talking to a foreigner that can only speak English and his/her own native language like French or German, then would speaking in English degrade their French or German as their national language? If you are proud of your national language and you can speak it fluently, nothing can degrade it. I mean I converse mostly in English but that does not mean I can't communicate in Malay nor does it mean I hate the language or anything. I have no problems whatsoever speaking in Malay with our fellow Malaysians nor am I ashamed to use it.

Also, the standard of English among students nowadays is atrocious!! They can hardly even construct a sentence in proper English! How to express one's feeling if that's the case? How to communicate with the global community?

If anything, I think teaching of maths and science in English has more benefits than not. I mean all the scientific formulas are in english already. For example:

F=ma (Force = mass times acceleration) isn't it easier to remember this in english rather than memorise the Malay version which is 'Daya = jisim darab pecutan' when you still write it as F=ma and then translate Daya to Force (F) and jisim to mass(m) and pecutan to acceleration(a)

When the whole world is using English as their maths and science language medium, I don't see what the fuss is all about. Doesn't Malaysia take pride in being a country where the people are multilingual??!! At the rate the standard of English is declining, we can strike off english from our multilingual list in the near future. I wince each and everytime I see some Malaysian celebrities struggle to say something in English when being interviewed by members of the international media group outside of our country. It's a real shame you know, when you cannot converse and express yourself properly in a language that you profess to understand.

So to all those who oppose the move with no valid reasons whatsoever, I have only two words : GROW UP!

[faithyng 0]

My goodness, lodged a police report about a very good matter !!! I would say these people are from the jungle. So typical and narrow minded.

If they still want to protect their own benefits and language, they will only move backward and will be left out by the world. No wonder last time the foreign countries still thought that Malaysian were living on a tree !....haiiii.....

[marryhim 0]

I read this news too and i was laughing in my heart while reading this.

I wonder if the 2 subjects are taught in National Language, the students will do it well in the exam?

Of course not to deny that the national language is the medium to close the communication gap in this multi-racial country and we should not ignore it.

What is so wrong about teaching these 2 subjects in English in which it'll benefit us more in this commercial society? Malaysians need to grow up these days and learnt the importance of improving English. We have to be true to ourselves that if we want to be 1 of the leading country, we have to change.

People may challenge that Japan, China, Taiwan are all using their own language to teach but they're also 1 of the leading country in the world. Mind you, Chinese/Mandarin/Japanese language (square words) can bring you further as compared to English. I read a book recently about why we need to be Mandarine/Chinese savvy. According to a survey conducted by Germany, a mandarin speaking man who diagnosed to stroke can pronounce words faster than a non-mandarin speaking man. Mind you, Chinese is one of optional subject taught in German now.

[beautifulgown 0]

I believe, even teach in BM they still cannot excel in these two subjects! hahahaha

They are just using this as an excuse to show us their 'power'!! they can do whatever they want and now they want govt to change it back to BM!! sigh .. sad sad!!!

[meiteoh 0]

This is an issue that is close to my heart as a former educator and someone who believes firmly in setting proper education system for the benefit of all.

My beef is not so much what language they choose to teach Math and Science in BUT that they make up their minds and stick to one.

I don't know if any of you know the story of the education system in Algeria. Being a former colony of France, they started off their education system entirely in French. The students did quite well and overall national ratings were very good, actually, compared to local French students. Then one fine day, the government decided to switched to Arabic and immediately, there was a decrease in the scores from Algerian students, especially in the field of maths and science. One of the reasons was because there were limited materials in Arabic for science and maths and the available materials were outdated in some aspects. These students were, actually, struggling.

My HB's uncle works with the Education Ministry in France and I remember speaking to him about this decision when I first met him years ago. His remark was this - a country that keeps changing the language of its education's medium of instruction is one that will never move forward. And rightly so.

I look at Singapore's education system and while it has its flaws, Lee Kuen Yew made the best decision for his people by choosing to stick with a former colony's language (English) as a medium of instruction. This was not because he was a slave to the British but because he had the foresight to see that he needed a pool of labour that could communicate efficiently and effectively with foreign investors. Hence why he made sure that English for the medium of instruction AND stuck to it. As a result, people overseas automatically assume that if you can speak English and you're from South East Asia, you must be Singaporean.

Mahathir's decision as Education Minister in the 80s was a bad one - choosing to switch the medium of instruction to Malay (a language that is little known outside of the country, let alone the region, and only spoken by 26 million people) was stupid, to say the least. There was minimal worldwide exposure and precious little reference materials. On top of that, the Malay language is considered a "new" language - words, pronounciation keys and so forth have only been standardized in the past twenty over years...plus it is a borrowed language, meaning most of the words are taken from other languages like English, Sanskrit and so forth (compare this with French and Latin-based languages which has its roots in mostly just Latin - I wouldn't say English because it too borrows a lot of words from its Latin cousin).

You cannot compare this with Japanese or Chinese when 1) Chinese is spoken by 1.3 billion people, has a long history and there are Chinese people EVERYWHERE (compared to Malays) and 2) same goes with the Japanese with one exception - they are already an established economic power at the time. Even then, EVEN THEN, you find many Japanese and Chinese going for language classes. Why? Because the government sees the importance of being multilingual and not just being able to speak but being fluent in an international language like English.

Look at it this way - if a foreigner were to come to Malaysia, they can get away with speaking just English when buying things. But if you go to overseas countries, can you get away with speaking just Malay? I doubt it.

Patriotism cannot be measured in what language you learn in or speak in. It is an emotional state which only you can know. Other people have little right to say that you are unpatriotic just because you speak a non-national language fluently.

Take the French. Many people say that the French are proud people because they only speak French BUT lets ruminate a little about this - while it's true that in France, everything is in French, French children HAVE to learn at least two languages in school (Spanish, German, Italian or English). At work, French companies look for people who are bilingual or multilingual. When it comes to interacting with non-French people, French people don't mind speaking in another language - if the need arises. I know of so many French (HB's friends, relatives, their friends and relatives) who speak beautiful English (if not sometimes broken) to me without me even asking. It is not because they are unpatriotic but because it is practical. Even the French themselves struggle with French grammar and vocabulary because it's hard (trust me, I KNOW) so you can't say that it's because they speak in other languages or learn other languages. The language itself IS hard and takes a lifetime of learning to perfect.

BUT at least their medium of instruction is consistent - French in schools throughout their schooling years and so forth. None of this nonsensical "I don't like French so lets teach everything in English". What is the use of learning just ONE language so well (lets not talk about learning it half-heartedly and being crappy at it) when you can't even use it outside of Malaysia or Indonesia?

Really, if "old" countries like France, China, Japan, Britain and so forth have been sticking to one language of medium of instruction for centuries, surely there is something right about what they are doing!

[Apekjolly 0]

From the last UPSR exam, it has been proven that teaching of Maths and Science in English has not jeopardized the standard of this two subjects among the students, nor has it jeaorpadized the national language of Bahasa Melayu.

[meiteoh 0]

It's not surprising that the standard of Maths and Science has not declined because there are more materials on the subject matter in English than in Malay (especially when you reach uni level)!!!! (The opposite of the situation that first arose in Algeria.)

What I'm concerned with is not so much the impact of this decision on primary school level children but on those in the science stream who have already moved on to secondary school and are tackling their STPM and SPM! Are they changing this decision because they have problems writing STPM and SPM Science & Maths exam papers in English? (I won't be surprised if this is an unspoken reason - the exam questions in Malay are already TOO easy.)

What were the reasons for this shift back to Malay anyway? Been out of the political loop for sometime because I can't stand the nonsense that the newspapers report in the name of newsworthiness. :/

[Apekjolly 0]

meiteoh,

The reasons given by those writers group was that, if the national language is not used to teach these two subjects, it implies that the nation itself is looking down on its own national language. It is like saying that the language is not capable of being used for communication in the technological or scientific arena.

And the group added that it was also violating certain article of the national constitution which states that the national language should be used as a medium of instruction for the country's education.

I worry that, for the sake of the so-called "national pride", progress and practicality is being compromised, and that would defeat the purpose. In other words, if a nation cannot keep pace with global advancement in these two fields, how can the nation be still proud of itself?

[beautifulgown 0]

*sigh* English is an universal language and I don't understand why they are so stubborn and now allowing the changes? It will be so funny if they tell the Mak salleh computer mouse is komputer tikus! what a joke ah! I remember when I first thought oum's class in BM I couldn't find myself to explain the term correctly, gesss .. all terms in BM just don't make sense to me and those STUDENTS are bad in english sigh .. Even I ask them to search some materials from internet, they told me there's lack of BM materials If that's lack of BM materials how can the "ego nation" can improve!? Even we can't compare with Singapore the technologoes in Singapore are more advance than us, adui .. what a shame la!

[daddyo 0]

This will not be the first time progress will be sacrificed for 'national pride'. Take a look at our national car - the infamous Proton. Making a name for all the wrong reasons. The govt. decided that the national car needed to be given a boost during its infancy and taxed imported cars until the prices was sky high.

Reason given - Proton needs to be given a chance to move up to par with the other car manufacturers. Today the proton still s*cks! Nothing has improved at all. Heck! I even think things have gone from bad to worse. If the people were given a choice, they would never buy the Proton! Instead of having Proton compete on a level playing field, they chose to protect it and now it cannot even survive on its own. Talk about dumb decisions and even dumber 'pride' to let the mistake go uncorrected all in the name of 'national pride'. I just wonder after all these 'national pride' policies to protect this, that and whatever, can we even have anything leftover to be proud about??!!

[meiteoh 0]

Has anyone actually taken a look at the constitution of Malaysia before even swallowing their bullshit? I don't recall seeing Malay being ordained as the medium of education, only that it is the national language. That's the biggest baloney that I've ever heard. Please refer to this link for the position of the Malay language in the constitution. Article 152 even goes on to say that NO ONE can be prevented or prohibited from using, teaching or learning another language!!!!!

As for that whole business about looking down on its own national language, lets face the facts - Malay is NOT an international language, has no marketability and well, is pointless to learn even in Malaysia - you can do well in Malaysia without a scrap of Malay knowledge!!!!! These people are just coming up with excuses left and right - so it's up to the rest of you Malaysians to do something about it.

In my case, the only thing I can do is rant about it and write letters. I can't even vote, ironic considering that I'm a true blue citizen. But lets not get there.

[sfgoh 0]

it's all a bunch of sad asses trying to put their interests first before others.

each race wants their own language to be made prominent (e.g. dong zong wants maths and science to be taught in chinese, the umnoputras want to defend their rights for these subjects 2 be taught in malay, the elite group wants them to be taught in english for internalisation sake) ... so what is left for the school-goers? i've seen many chinese seconday school dropouts because of their difficulties in catching up with 3 different languages. who's taking care of their interests?

Is there anyone really looking into this issue of dropouts, instead of just blaming their lack of interests in studying?

[Apekjolly 0]

Talking about education and being able to get on with life. I wonder anybody would believe me if I say that a person can just get on very well with life like a very educated person if he or she studies only tow subjects in school - English and Basic Mathematics.

We don't actually need to study all the other subjects unless we want to be a specialist in a particular field.

My reason is simple: Just look at ourselves now. The only knowledge we acquired from school which we still need for doing our jobs are basically English and Mathematics, right? (Being able to read and count) We don't, for instance, need to know anything about history, geography, literature, physics, etc, etc in order to be a car salesman, do we? The same situation applies to many other jobs and careers as well.

I don't mean that all the other subjects are not important. They are important only when a person wants to be an expert in that field or if their jobs require specific knowledge in those fields.

And for those of us whose jobs don't require those specific knowledge but are just interested in them, well, we have the library waiting for us to pay a visit. So, just go and read them in the library. For example, if you're interested to know what started the first world war, go and read the story in the library. Why the hell were we required to memorise the story through a history lesson in school? How much history facts do we still remember and which of the facts do we find still useful in our every life now?

By the way, I feel that English is the most important educational tool a person can use. With English, a person can unearth tons of knowledge simply because an enormous amount of knowledge has been recorded and is being recorded and stored up in the English language. All that one has to do is to read about the knowledge or study it using the global language - English. And now we want to talk about not using English for maths and science? What a pity!

[beautifulgown 0]

apekjolly,

I agree with you, why we need to memory those history? that's what I hate most during my school time, I don't like history and to me it is waste of time to study history.

I remember during my time, history never get out from my life until I finished form 5!! ish!!! and I don't understand why we need to memorize history, years, happening? and the questions also stupid, now when I think back, the education system is to train us to memorize the things and not to understand the things that we learned. Why not they stop the history subject at form 3, form 4 & 5 for better subject?

Not sure for the syllabus now, I should check with my nieces, I hope they have changed it, make history is an optional subject instead of 'compulsory' and mind you, most subjects are in BM except English, Maths and Science and yet they are still not happy about it.

I believe if can, they will abolish all languages to be taught in school, including Chinese and Tamil .. gesss .. that's way too much liau lah!

[fluene 0]

I wonder why the government cannot make a decision and stick to it. The laughable ones was the question on whether the national lnaguage should be called Bahasa Melayu or Bahasa Malaysia. Then the national anthem. Should it be the slow version or the fast version? Which one is it now by the way? There are many other matters where the gov is showing us what a clown they are. As for this BM or Eng issue, there will be endless arguments. At the end of the day, those who suffer are the students.

Maths and Science in Bm just do not make sense. The formulas, the logic, etc. What more with the stupid Eng - BM translation just make the subjects even more confusing.

On another note, making a police report on this issue seem laughable at first. But then, do you all notice that there is a race to make police reports after reports these days? As Dr M said, these are not criminal case. What can the police do? Plain stupid!

[daddyo 0]

apekjolly & beautiful gown : While it is true that one can get on in life just by learning 2 subjects - English and basic maths but we should not neglect the importance of the other subjects.

I do concur that the history syllabus in school makes it a very boring subject but it is only after I had finished schooling that I realized the importance of history. If we had no knowledge of what has gone on in the past, we are doomed to repeat the same mistakes in future. The lessons in history is not having to memorize in what year what event happened. It really should be why that event happened and what outcome resulted and what we can learn from it.

Think about it. WWII and the holocaust. Where the Jews were systematically being eradicated because of one man's misguided belief. If we had no knowledge of this, then could it be possible that the ethnic cleasing that happened in Bosnia many years ago be another holocaust? If the international society had not recognized it for what it was, then we would be living in a very different world today.

The rise and fall of communism. From strongholds like China and the USSR was back then to now where the last bastion of communism is in North Korea. How the people denounced the communism rule and how the rulers marginalised all the people for their own benefits and left the countries to rot. If we had no idea of all these, would we not be blinded to vote for a party that championed communism or another disguised form of it?

And much closer to home - the racial riots of 1969. What had caused it? Why it happened? And how it was engineered? What happened after that? We must know all this so that we will never repeat it. Do any of you realise that the situation we have right now is very, very similar to what transpired back in 1969 after the March 8 elections last year? With all those irresponsible people stirring up the racial issue last year (one Ahmad Ismail comes to mind), I was really glad that there were enough sensible people out there who knew what happened in the past, acted wisely to avoid having a repeat incident.

The winds of change were blowing back then in 69 as they were in 2008. Because of the knowledge that we have of the past, a nasty incident was avoided. Things are not perfect now (far from it even) but I take comfort that it is a sign that change has started to come and will eventually and hopefully make Malaysia a better place.

Sorry for going off on a tangent - that's just my view. As for science and maths and languages, we really do not need any policies if we are determined enough to learn them in any language we like. We just need to put in the effort. The politicians and policy makers have their own agendas. What we need to do is to make sure that we are not being denied the chance to learn, whatever language that it may be taught in.

[beautifulgown 0]

I remember during my time, I have to study history from Primary school, Form 1 to Form 5, why? I really don't see it is necessary, can give an option, basic history is ok, they can pick the most important one but not to ask us to know which year which sultan, which year which sultan, now when I think back, is that necessary? And in exam, we need to remember each sultan and year .. gesss .. important? those are the past, that's call history. Do I need it now? I don't see it, then why I must waste the time to study it, why not use it for other better subject?

Look at the school's students workload, don't tell me the education system is right now?

[meiteoh 0]

Apek, I, for one, do not agree with just learning English and Maths. Like Daddyo, I believe that history is important because the only way we can learn and move towards the future is by understanding the past and learning from our mistakes. That is why in every culture, history is one important factor apart from language. With language, one maps our dates and events, chronicles our achievements, downfalls and so forth. Not just to glorify one's self but so that our future generation may learn where they come from and how they came to be. Even science, especially the science of evolution, is a form of history-telling itself. Who you are is not just about what or where you are at this point in time, it is also about your past.

What people don't like is how history is taught - like Ling said, memorizing dates, names of leaders and so forth; we think dates are not important, names are inconsequential (after all, Sultan Abdul Razak and Sultan Abdul Rahman sounds the same so who cares?) - but really, ask yourself this - IF a foreigner were to ask you to talk about the history of how the Federation of Malaya came to be, the unification of the Peninsular states, can you give an accurate recount of how it happened from the start of the Malaccan empire? I don't know about you guys but I get asked about Malaysian history A LOT at the dinner table and in conversations with my HB's French friends.

Malaysian history is NOTHING compared to French history - they are in their FIFTH revolution and their history dates back to the Gauls and so forth. They have countless of presidents, and kings yet when I ask my hubby to tell me about how France first became an empire, he can remember the names of the leaders and the dates so well that it embarrasses me when I get my own country's history wrong or inaccurate. While I confused myself with who are the barbaric Roman leaders, my HB can tell you the order and what they did specifically - Caesar, Nero, Caligula and so forth.

Going back to world history, because of the way history is taught (local or world), students ignorant of their past are an embarrassment to us as a society because they are uncultured. Yes, a person who has no basic knowledge of history is considered to be uncultured and uneducated in these parts of the world. It doesn't matter if he is fluent in four languages or has the Mathematical knowledge befitting of a genius. Can you imagine hearing reactions from students that the Holocaust occurred during the 1920s? Some don't even know what the Holocaust is much or less who the Jews and Nazis are. What they say, what they think and what they know of historical events shows that we do not value our heritage and historical background as a society and as a race.

Which brings me to the next point - history, language, science and arts are interconnected. Geography is the study of the physical workings of our planet. It teaches us how to appreciate our resources, the power of nature and so forth. How can we save water if people think that water comes from dams, if people don't understand the difference between seawater and fresh water? How can people learn to appreciate their environment if they don't know anything about the destruction of natural landscapes, if they take everything for granted? Geography is a science and like Daddyo, I really regretted not learning as much as I could about it because when you take apart geography, it includes chemistry, physics, history and yes, even math.

Everything is interconnected - you cannot learn one without the other. Art for example is not just about paintings even though we think it is. It is about appreciating the world around us, seeing things not just from one perspective but another. Take a look at the works of famous painters like Dali, Van Gogh and Picasso. These people are masters in the science of creativity, art that allows people to move beyond what they see...to think beyond the box. And how many Malaysians do you know are capable of thinking outside the box?

Going back to this statement "What they say, what they think and what they know of historical events shows that we do not value our heritage and historical background as a society and as a race". Let me now explain why I say this...

My same students who have a flippant view of history, more often than not, have little knowledge of their cultural heritage. They don't know why some traditions are only practised on a certain day/date (history). They don't know how or where they came from except that they were born in Malaysia (geography). They don't even know what foods, practices, etc are unique to their ethnic group (culture/arts). Heck, they don't even see the importance of learning to cook (again, culture/arts). They don't even know their mother tongue (language). Do you see the connection history has with all of these other subjects?

I remember watching a documentary which was a little apocalyptic in nature. It deduced that in the future, there is a possibility that only one culture, and one language will exist while others die or fade away. This is because of 1) media influence in our society and 2) changing cultural influences. The older generation who are the bearers of this knowledge will die and be replaced by the younger generation. The image was vivid. Everyone had the same hairstyle, same expression, wore the same clothes and well, spoke the same language.

Even the old societies and countries do not limit themselves to just language and Math because they know that life is more than just that, that everything is interconnected.

Frankly, what I want changed is the attitude of politicians and the teaching methods itself. No more spoon feeding. No more stupid questions that do not provoke any thinking. No more subjects like Moral Studies (which should be replaced by the study of philosophy which includes ethnics - the foundation of moral studies).

[sfgoh 0]

one word to describe our malaysian education system, SCREWED-UP!!

anyway, i learned most of my histories through my inquisitiveness, by asking my granny loads of questions about what actually happened during the Communist and Japanese occupations in Malaya.

she would "story" me abt the 1969 issue as well which we WILL NEVER find in our history book.

come to mention it, i visited a bookstore one day and out of curiosity, i took a peep into the history textbooks that our school-goers use in their classes .... OMG not only has the textbook become thinner than what we had before, the contents are written namely to glorify 'certain race' (how they came to Malaya, how they fought to defend Malaya from invaders, etc). There was no SEJARAH DUNIA in sight. I am not sure if it still exists!!

[edward 0]

Maths and Science - origin from different languages... arab,etc

Today most books are written in english and translated to other languages.'

In Malaysia, the argument to revert back to Bahasa Malaysia or is it Bahasa Melayu? is that the malays many years back when it was in malay language it has been difficult. Now today, in english it is even more difficult for them.

Lets say I only know mandarin or chinese language - Still I would like to learn to read "english" because majority of the great science books are in english. This is a great reason for me to learn english.

If I am the Minister of Education and had to comment on this.. I would tell them! For your own sake, study English as your purpose to learn other subjects BUT stick to Bahasa Malaysia for your communication if you are comfortable with it. English is an international language.. having known how to read english, it opens the world of information for you! BUT if you resist, then all this information has no use to you and you would unable to further enhance your knowledge.

Well , you can opt for the translated ones, BUT in science terminology.. there is no equivalent in Bahasa Malaysia.

Today our bahasa Malaysia has evolved to add more vocabulary borrowed from the english word BUT still some improvement has to be made.. example software or hardware in BM?

I say ENGLISH is must if you want to open your door to knowledge and information.

[Beanz 0]

you all should read today's newspaper. I was laughing my head off." Teachers going mad teaching subjects in English". They even dare to mention that the teachers have to take up english classes to improve their command of english. it is such a shame to admit that our teachers are not capable of teaching Maths and Science in English.

I remember once, my english teacher ( that was x years ago..lol ). This English teacher was teaching us reading and writing. She wrote on the board, "BUFFALO", and then read it as "BU-FA-LO"..i was like OMG, it was supposed to be Buff-fa-lo instead of BU-FA-LO. Worst thing is students repeated what she said. :wacko3:

My mum told me, during her time, all the classes are taught in English. If you happen to see, mostly all the older generation, they speak good english. Sometimes, I wonder why did they change it to BM instead of English?

[meiteoh 0]

I should write a letter about that article. =.=

It's shameful because what these teachers are facing is a result of bad policy making processes in the past! And they dare use it as a justification to continue such awful decisions!