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edward

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I am a webmaster myself and I used to run forums. Never ever I remove someones personal details UNLESS it contravenes with the international cyberlaw. Contents like pornography, racism, etc are within the rights of admin to delete and normally the whole account.

I am a real person whom has an identity and my personal content has been removed. This is an infringement and an abuse by the admin or moderator. WHY?

Because by doing so , you have shown that if you can delete Meaning YOU CAN ADD other details which is untrue and create a false impression on my account!

It is very abusive move by a moderator or a forum admin because this shows that just because the forum runs on your webserver that you can act like gods. There are some areas of which the admin can access BUT they are not allowed to BY LAW..such as email contents because this is an infringement to their privacy.

The personal information is about whom am I , and it is specific information for people here. If that too you do not allow guests to view just because I am in the wedding industry, I dont know what is this forum is for??

Deleting information on a private setting is just bad faith on MB's admin/moderators. The personal correspondance no longer a privy and this is bad practice!

Thank you

Edward Lam

note: I am a real person not a fake account whom people create to multiple accounts and message themselves to give a false impression. I dont need to do that. We are weddingplanners NOT business con artist. If I chose not to advertise or be a vendor in MB, doesnt mean you have all the rights to remove my personal contents. We are NOT your competitor, we compliment you website content.. Your competitors are weddingsmalaysia, weddingsbyeternal,etc...those are database content provider.

note II: I would like to apologize to other guests of MB for ranting on MB's admin or moderators.

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First all, Mr Lam, let me be clear on several things...

When you signed up as a member, one of the "rules and regulations" was the no advertising of business or traffic solicitation. This is because we have registered vendors who have PAID to advertise their services with you. Don't you think it's a bit unfair and ridiculous for you to get away scoot-free with offering your services seemingly for free on the guise of giving advice when these people have taken into account the cost to garner traffic and clients? Paying gives them the advantages and benefits that non-vendors DO NOT have and this includes placing links on their site that lead to their business.

I run a business as well which is not related to this forum BUT I respect the rules and the order of the place. Even though my business is part of who I am and could compliment this site, I understand why only vendors are allowed to advertise their business alone and not just any Tom, Dick and Harry. I don't throw a tantrum and demand that people change things just for me alone.

In fact, when you first entered this forum, your identity was as Mr Lam, THE WEDDING PLANNER who has a wedding planning business! Even now, days later, you are still "selling" yourself as that. I came in as meiteoh, a girl working in publishing looking for advice and tips on wedding; years later, I'm still selling myself as a regular person even though I have a business. In fact, very few people here know my shop's web address. See how we differ and why you were "warned" about advertising your business?

Take a look at the rules and regulations here and tell me where we went wrong when we removed the hyperlinks and some posts where you put in your website link and/or blatantly put up your website. It doesn't contravene anything. In fact, when you break any of the rules, it gives the mods and admin the right to step in and do what we usually do - send you a warning PM, edit the posts/profile and/or put the relevant posts in invisible mode.

Also, let me be clear on one thing - the mods and admin here HAVE NEVER EVER tampered with member's profiles other than for the reason above. We don't know you and therefore, why would we go through such great lengths to toy around with the reputation of someone we don't know?

Every forum has its house rules and I cannot apologise on behalf of the team for having house rules that differs from your "house".

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Hello. I am in support of meiteoh and the other mods and admins of MB here.

Personally, when I first started out using the internet and coming into forums, I was quiet oblivious to all the netiquette ... I made an accidental posting right here in MB and was sent a very subtle and polite PM from the mods of MB. I began to realize that not all forums operate in the same manner. I apologized for my mistake and my post was edited. That was that.

However, since then, I have worked with MB and organized events with MB as my partner. At no point were they unprofessional or unethical. In fact, they went out of the way to assist me in every way possible, by cross selling/bartering our products. They held no grudges against me nor I against them. More importantly, even after my wrong 'first' footing, they did not even tamper, alter, delete my personal information.

I am still working with MB as a partner and come here to meet friends to have a quick chat. I have learnt to honour their rules and regulations. I have been here for about a year now and I do know for a fact that my personal information is still intact. I am a Hotelier by profession, and as we always say, "word of mouth spreads like wildfire". I honestly am of the same opinion as meiteoh, when in someone else's house, observe their rules. That is ethics and principles.

I have learnt a lot from MB itself and am very thankful to all the efforts by their members, mods and admins. Therefore, I support and concur with the action of MB mods and admins.

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Hello. I am in support of meiteoh and the other mods and admins of MB here.

Personally, when I first started out using the internet and coming into forums, I was quiet oblivious to all the netiquette ... I made an accidental posting right here in MB and was sent a very subtle and polite PM from the mods of MB. I began to realize that not all forums operate in the same manner. I apologized for my mistake and my post was edited. That was that.

However, since then, I have worked with MB and organized events with MB as my partner. At no point were they unprofessional or unethical. In fact, they went out of the way to assist me in every way possible, by cross selling/bartering our products. They held no grudges against me nor I against them. More importantly, even after my wrong 'first' footing, they did not even tamper, alter, delete my personal information.

I am still working with MB as a partner and come here to meet friends to have a quick chat. I have learnt to honour their rules and regulations. I have been here for about a year now and I do know for a fact that my personal information is still intact. I am a Hotelier by profession, and as we always say, "word of mouth spreads like wildfire". I honestly am of the same opinion as meiteoh, when in someone else's house, observe their rules. That is ethics and principles.

I have learnt a lot from MB itself and am very thankful to all the efforts by their members, mods and admins. Therefore, I support and concur with the action of MB mods and admins.

Bang, Bravo... Adek sokong!!!!

come in to ppl house, must follow the rules. It doesn't mean you can do anything you like at other ppl home.

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Totally agreed with meiteoh and Railway. When we signed up, we accepted the terms & conditions. After signed up, only make noise about the unfair treatment. Well, this only happens to those who didn't even bother to read the T&C. So, who's to blame? Go figure.

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I strongly agreed to the action by the Admin and Moderators.. Good works!

Dear Mr Lam,

Hope you can understand that MB's Admin and Moderators is protecting the rights of their customer(vendors who are in wedding industry and would like to share the info to their potential prospect here) who have paid to advertise in MB. It is absolutely right for them to do so as whatever infor that you published does somehow violated the rules of business solicitation here as a normal member. Please do respect the rules and regulations of each forum/website you want to join the community.

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Yang, agaknya dia faham tak maksud "MASUK KANDANG KAMBING MENGEMBEK, MASUK KANDANG LEMBU MENGUAK" .... :mad::mad::mad:

Erm .. that's an interesting Malay Idiom .... I think an appropriate one in English would be; "When in Rome, Do as the Romans Do."

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:rclxlh:

I am a webmaster myself and I used to run forums. Never ever I remove someones personal details UNLESS it contravenes with the international cyberlaw. Contents like pornography, racism, etc are within the rights of admin to delete and normally the whole account.

That's your rule in running your own forum but not MB. Every country has its own rules too. What is permit in UK does not means it is lawful in Msia. I bet you are old enough to understand this and dun need me to explain further.

I am a real person whom has an identity and my personal content has been removed. This is an infringement and an abuse by the admin or moderator. WHY?

Wah... sound so serious ah... BUT i dun see there is any abuse of power by the Admin nor the MOD since your personal content contains certain information which has clearly breach the forum rules.

Because by doing so , you have shown that if you can delete Meaning YOU CAN ADD other details which is untrue and create a false impression on my account!

How could you make such accusation toward the Mod and Admin? Have they ever modify your details by adding any untrue information? Show us if there is any.. If you dun have any, please dun not ACCUSE. MOD and Admin.. you may sue this guy for defamation as he is making untrue statement and trying to create a false impression on the reputation of the MOD and Admin.

It is very abusive move by a moderator or a forum admin because this shows that just because the forum runs on your webserver that you can act like gods. There are some areas of which the admin can access BUT they are not allowed to BY LAW..such as email contents because this is an infringement to their privacy.

MOD and Admin never act as God BUT they are indeed given the full right to manage the forum in accordance to the rules and regulation. We don't need you to teach our Forum Owner how to run this forum nor what sort of power should be granted to the Admin and MOD. It's none of your business. You may leave this forum if you do not like how it's being run.

BTW which Law prohibit the Admin to access to your profile? Which Act? Penal Code No? Law of Mr Edward Lam? What sort of privacy are your talking about. Admin can't access to your email account, your bank account, etc.

The personal information is about whom am I , and it is specific information for people here. If that too you do not allow guests to view just because I am in the wedding industry, I dont know what is this forum is for??

This forum is for members to share their experience, exchange information (non profit making purposes) and registered vendor to promote their products/service. You may find this forum not suitable for you as you are trying to use this forum for profit making purpose w/o registering yourself as a vendor by paying RM60/month!

Deleting information on a private setting is just bad faith on MB's admin/moderators. The personal correspondance no longer a privy and this is bad practice!

Insisting of breaking the forum rules yet finding 1000 reasons just justify it is just BAD FAITH on YOU and this is bad PRACTICE.

:girl_devil:

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Different Forum has different rules and regulation. Just follow the rules if you like to join in which I think it is a fair games. Simple as that....

My 2 cents opinion

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I am fully supporting meiteoh and the rest. Everyone of us is bound by the rules & regulations set by the Admin/moderators of this MB forum. Also we have to be fair to those who paid to advertise. Imagine everyone does the same by putting up their business link in their personal information, then others will start doing so as they like and no one will be funding to advertise.

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Guest Chrisandben

Aiyoh I read this post I want to laugh so badly.

As I am a real time (since you like to say real) business woman in the real business world I understand the very basic of marketing. There is no such free lunch available. In fact to advertise in this forum is only RM60 per month. So if you were a real wedding planner ( a big timer) RM60 per month is nothing to you consider how much you are making out of your clients. Instead you choose to be stingy to even not bother to advertise in a proper way to get more clients into your business. You are DEFINITELY not a professional wedding planner.

For brides out there when you choose a good wedding planner make sure you go for the generous one as you don't want to ruin your wedding by paying a big sum yet do not provide the quality job in return.

Please think before you act or accuse somebody. It just shows how unprofessional and how bad yourself are.

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Hahaha..............i happened to stumble upon this thread and I find this to be real funny. I am no business woman, but just a normal person working for a company. Just can't help finding this thread to be really interesting :lol:

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Aiyah... no need tok so far about vendors.. there are also rules for us normal mortals to post sales item at garage section.

I even ask permission to post there. And we all follow by it. What is so difficult? If not, Mod or Admin have all the right to delete!

So.. we all follow rules here. EVERYONE FOLLOW RULES.

Sudah lah Admin/Mod.. our frend here just barking at the wrong tree. Let's move on and he can continue to bark if he wants. No one will layan him anyway. *woof woof*

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i guess you guys are all in unison voice as one.

I did not advertise as per "if you need wedding planner please contact us" in a main forum discussion area.

I have merely add information about myself of which if anyone would like to view my profile they would need to click on it. The information requested in the forum engine is to provide an identity of the person so that the person whom if anyone would like to know. This information is provided by guest so that it build credibility as a forum contributor.

It is unfair of you to say that I am not a professional wedding planner.. as this topic is not about wedding planning. I believe you just like to condemn before the fact and pass judgment without even having to read or investigate. This tells a lot about a person. Nevermind, Its ok with me.

The information request is build into the forum engine and you cannot disable it. What you have done by deleting the information of a persons profile you are changing the facts and it an abusive move.

The internet is a dimensionless void and via "text" we build our character. It is imperative this has to be respected and taken as prima-facie. (face-value)

Internet has etiquette, guidelines..etc, LAW.

I am not looking for free lunch in here. We have vendor friends too in this webforum. We too advertise on other bigger site occasionally. I am not here to figure out how to get a free lunch.

Why do I bother? I bother because I have been online since dial-up BBS was 1st introduce. Censorship of content contravenes with our freedom of speech. Why do our cyberlaw in Malaysia prohibits censorship of content? The reason is internet is borderless and censorship of content infringes everyones freedom of speech and violation of privacy. Each of us need to protect this OR one day you would not dare to speak up or post messages that may incriminate you.

I find this deletion of private information by MB is like hacking into someone personal computer and deleting information. YES you are by all empowering yourself to do what is necessary to PREVENT other from trying to make a living eating off your bandwidth or gaining a free lunch? Why do you want to do this?? Your terms and condition contravenes cyberworld etiquette. You can go to a USA site, visit a wedding forum, have your information inserted and they will not delete it, because you did not break the law.

I am writing as a webmaster capacity not as a wedding planner. Mind you if you do not understand "freedom of speech, privacy, or internet law or ettiques) try reading it up. Probably you would understand that there are something worth protecting in your own ways.

MB is so afraid that someone could benefit commercially for free that they go all the way until deleting private information entered by a guest of whom has a legal identity identifiable and traceable.

I would like to contribute to the forum in many aspect of the topic discuss like what I am doing in Facebook in areas of sports, politics, photography, etc in MB? How could I do it if I am not allow to have my BASIC identify established?

Honestly, you don't have to consider me as a vendor in MB in any future. I could play by the rules by paying how much RM30 to RM60? or was it RM100/= per month to be a vendor? Was I given the opportunity to gauge whether it is viable to advertise here in MB? Was I given the opportunity to be Edward Lam of Fabulous Wedding Wonders? No, I am denied of my identity, of my association with an organization?

Would it be any different, if I was Edward Lam from Toastmaster '51? Edward Lam from CitiBank? Would you delete my data of being associated with an organization?

You have entered into a privy data area and deleted the data , which will portrait me differently to the other guests or friends.

And again, I am here as Edward Lam not as a wedding planner, an engineer, a salesman, etc.. plain Edward Lam.

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i guess you guys are all in unison voice as one.

I did not advertise as per "if you need wedding planner please contact us" in a main forum discussion area.

I have merely add information about myself of which if anyone would like to view my profile they would need to click on it. The information requested in the forum engine is to provide an identity of the person so that the person whom if anyone would like to know. This information is provided by guest so that it build credibility as a forum contributor.

It is unfair of you to say that I am not a professional wedding planner.. as this topic is not about wedding planning. I believe you just like to condemn before the fact and pass judgment without even having to read or investigate. This tells a lot about a person. Nevermind, Its ok with me.

The information request is build into the forum engine and you cannot disable it. What you have done by deleting the information of a persons profile you are changing the facts and it an abusive move.

The internet is a dimensionless void and via "text" we build our character. It is imperative this has to be respected and taken as prima-facie. (face-value)

Internet has etiquette, guidelines..etc, LAW.

I am not looking for free lunch in here. We have vendor friends too in this webforum. We too advertise on other bigger site occasionally. I am not here to figure out how to get a free lunch.

Why do I bother? I bother because I have been online since dial-up BBS was 1st introduce. Censorship of content contravenes with our freedom of speech. Why do our cyberlaw in Malaysia prohibits censorship of content? The reason is internet is borderless and censorship of content infringes everyones freedom of speech and violation of privacy. Each of us need to protect this OR one day you would not dare to speak up or post messages that may incriminate you.

I find this deletion of private information by MB is like hacking into someone personal computer and deleting information. YES you are by all empowering yourself to do what is necessary to PREVENT other from trying to make a living eating off your bandwidth or gaining a free lunch? Why do you want to do this?? Your terms and condition contravenes cyberworld etiquette. You can go to a USA site, visit a wedding forum, have your information inserted and they will not delete it, because you did not break the law.

I am writing as a webmaster capacity not as a wedding planner. Mind you if you do not understand "freedom of speech, privacy, or internet law or ettiques) try reading it up. Probably you would understand that there are something worth protecting in your own ways.

MB is so afraid that someone could benefit commercially for free that they go all the way until deleting private information entered by a guest of whom has a legal identity identifiable and traceable.

I would like to contribute to the forum in many aspect of the topic discuss like what I am doing in Facebook in areas of sports, politics, photography, etc in MB? How could I do it if I am not allow to have my BASIC identify established?

Honestly, you don't have to consider me as a vendor in MB in any future. I could play by the rules by paying how much RM30 to RM60? or was it RM100/= per month to be a vendor? Was I given the opportunity to gauge whether it is viable to advertise here in MB? Was I given the opportunity to be Edward Lam of Fabulous Wedding Wonders? No, I am denied of my identity, of my association with an organization?

Would it be any different, if I was Edward Lam from Toastmaster '51? Edward Lam from CitiBank? Would you delete my data of being associated with an organization?

You have entered into a privy data area and deleted the data , which will portrait me differently to the other guests or friends.

And again, I am here as Edward Lam not as a wedding planner, an engineer, a salesman, etc.. plain Edward Lam.

There is no such thing as true freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is bound by rules set in place by society's views on what is proper and not. In other words, you cannot go around simply saying whatever you like in the name of freedom of speech. There are rules to follow. If it is against common decency and so forth (rules, basically), it is wrong just as how it's wrong to go around setting up a blog filled with racist messages or Nazi-related materials. If freedom of speech really exist as per your version, then laws for libel and so forth are illegal.

If your basic identity is as you say it is - as Edward Lam - then really, tell me why do you need to have this in your personal statement:

My name is Edward of Fabulous Wedding Wonders and our website is (link inserted here). Thank you for reading my profile.

HOW CAN YOU EXPECT US TO TAKE YOU AS A REGULAR JOE WHEN YOU PUT THAT UP IN YOUR PROFILE AND SELL YOURSELF AS THAT IN YOUR POSTS with things like "our consultant, our company, our client" and etc?

Yes, info request is built into the system but the last I check, things about you, your website and signature ARE OPTIONAL. Meaning you can leave them blank, if you wish. Clearly you have made a choice to do otherwise.

Oh, as for cyberworld etiquette, can you please direct me to a definite site that says that a forum cannot have their own houserules? Even American sites differ from one to another - not just wedding forums but generally forums per se.

And before you think that I'm speaking about this as a mod, think again. If you want to pull the whole "I have been online since dial-up BBS was up", well, so have I and I also have academic qualifications & working experience in media studies and so forth. I just find it preposterous that you break the rules, then justify how it's OUR FAULT for setting up the rules that you have broken, then continue to break them, and pull the whole "freedom of speech" thing as well as "I'm just a regular Joe". It's like peeing in someone's house and then scolding them for not allowing you to pee in their house in the first place.

Please do not embarrass those of us who really believe and champion the right to freedom of expression and speech.

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Say whatever you may to.. justifying for the sake of justifying. It's fine but it will not make any difference here.

Just feel very disappointed that you still can't understand what's house rules all about. I wonder how did you survive during school time? Each school has its own rules and some are stricter than others. Fighting with teachers days and nights just because your friends from another school allowed to do so while you are not? Pity you... pity your teacher too...

Anyway, you will always be given the opportunity to be Edward Lam of Fabulous Wedding Wonders provided you registered as Vendor. Else, you can only be Edward Lam, a plain individual in MB and NO direct or indirect solicitation of your business will be allowed.

Can you swear by your heart that you have no single intention to directly or indirectly promoting your business or your own FORUM? I can easily recalled those self-promoting posts written by your goodself... Perhaps I should ask MOD/Admin to extract it out in order to refresh your weak memory... The most recent few were posted sometime in Jan 09. {MOD/Admin, correct me if my memory fails me}

Come on.. you are grown-up adult and please do not act like a sour loser... Haiz...

This chinese saying just hit my mind : Ngau pei tang long, dim gek dou dim ng ming [Direct translation : Cow skin made lantern => can never be lighted up]. It means certain people are just so stubborn and he/she will never be enlightened.

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Dear Mr Plain Edward Lam,

:girl_devil: Dun tok about all the laws, start accusing the admin/mods this and that. You are blowing out the issue out of poportion. Let's tackle the main root cause.

You mention..

"I have merely add information about myself of which if anyone would like to view my profile they would need to click on it"

First thing first, if you are really the plain one and have no intention to solicite or sell.. then why in the first place put information about yourself and ask readers to "view" you contact? What is your main objective here? And if you know the rules here (I hope you have read) that no solicitation is allowed in anyway unless you are classified as vendor. As easy as that. And it's the fact you are a wedding planner isn't it?

You can do all you like in YOUR OWN FORUM. But we have rules here (how many times we have to tell you that??!!). :dash2: You can tok all you want about those Cyberlaw and all the laws. Really, before you start toking all the laws, please look at what you have done here. One man's meat is another poison. You may think what you did is completely fine, but for us is not.

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Hello again.

I have worked in many parts of the Asian Region and many people have approached me to tell me that my ideas do not work in Malaysia. Even to this day and since offering FREE stuff in my current working place, they all said, "It's too good to be true". Many have encouraged me to work in the United States or Europe where they think my ideas can be put to better use. Well, in all my years of working around the region, yes, I have knocked my head many times, fell many times, barked up the wrong tree many times, and have been consistently told that I am crazy.

Well, I'm still here today, still carrying out my crazy ideas, still knocking my head against the wall and still barking up the wrong trees. What's more important is that you are here in Malaysia, you abide by that countries laws and social norms. Please do not take another countries norms and try to make it applicable here, cause I have tried that many times and failed. Unless of course, you go onto the other country of choice.

I am not trying to be harsh, but I am speaking from my own experiences. In business, its either you, "make the system work for you" or else, "If it gets too hot, get out of the kitchen". In fact, during my younger days, I would shout at the sky, but as I grew older, I can only fault myself for not being wise enough to make the system work for me.

It pays to be a little prudent at times and if you were in our shoes, a unison voice speaks volumes about this forum.

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the rules of this forum are no advertising, so if the mods feel that yr personal details e.g. wedding planner & watever website link u posted is advertising, so be it. its the rules here. if u feel its too much to stomach, don't join. no big deal. u seem to have way too much time to complain about this small little matter, if u're here to learn & share from yr experiences, u're most welcome.

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Hi Edward,

Very sorry to you if you felt that your rights have been taken away and get offended because some part of your post was removed. I hope you do understand that the admins and moderators need to deal with a lot of spam posts, spam topics on a daily basis, and sometime we may over look those spams, sometime we may be too strict to certain "perceived business solicitation". MB has been a great way for ppl to find out information about various wedding related services, and ppl make decision base on discussion in MB because they trust the members' opinion as those are not sales talk.

In order to keep MB a trustworthy place for information sharing, we have imposed a stricter rule and definition in terms of what is business solicitation.

If the content is not suitable, we may be removing the topic and the post. Being nice to the forum members, moderators actually go extra mile to examine the content and only remove the "unnecessary" portion instead of removing the whole post so that the message get conveyed in a non-sales oriented manner.

Thanks for your feedback on this, we will take your point in and see how can we work that so that we can create a more friendly environment. One immediate action that we can take is to make sure that "edit reason" is given for any amendment done on the posts.

Have a nice day.

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Edward,

if i were you, i will just shut up and never browse or return to this forum since you claimed that this forum break the law bla bla bla. why do u want to keep shouting here and there, accusing here and there.

every country have their own rules and this set of rules is been imposed here so just follow.

if u were to say about how the law in US website, does this means we - people from whole world have to follow this as well? the americans are allowed to have sex in public places, i doubt u can do it in msia. if u can recall of a case of English couple having sex in dubai beach, they are being sued to UAE court also. again, different country different law.

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Guest Chrisandben

I am pretty sure that this Edward knows too well about the LAW on internet/forum/blah blah blah... he is trying hard to get the lop holes and take advantages of it. Just like the typical businessmen/women around the world getting out the best they could to benefit their own business. This is norm in any business industries no matter where you are even in US or in Asia. Indeed, these are the little things those desperate business owners will look into just so they could try their luck to improve their business. Too bad sometimes luck get out of their ways and they went overboard.

This is like cheating in such a way. I totally disrespect it.

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