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Apekjolly

The Right To Die.

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A few days ago, my friend's mother-in-law died. But before the 70-year old woman finally breathed her last , she was in hospital for about a week and kept alive by tubes, mask, gadgets, and machines. While she was artificially kept alive, she groaned in pain. Doctors said there was nothing more they could do to reverse her illness. In other words, death was certain and it only depended on how long the machines could sustained her life.

An argument broke out between family members and relatives. One group said she should be kept alive by the machines for as long as possible. The other group thought she should be allowed to die a natural death so that she would not suffer any longer.

Things got uglier when the group who wanted the machines to keep her living accused the other group of being murderers while the group who wanted her to end her suffering fast counter-accused the first group of being sadistic and inhuman to prolong a human's suffering.

Eventually, the eldest daughter of the woman got implied words from the sufferer herself that she could not bear the pain anymore and she wanted to die. Her daughter objected and said she had no right to die, but the mother said she had the right to die because she was in pain. Finally, the daughter allowed her mother to be discharged from hospital to "rest" at home. The woman died soon after the tubes and mask were removed.

The question we should be asking ourselves is "Should life be sustained when it should have gone?

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Incident happened yesterday that my aunt was stroke & admit to hospital in coma... this her 2nd time of stroke, doctor advise the family need to get ready as she may go at anytime... she is also depending on the machine to keep her life on...

My parent was there (hospital) last nite (I not thr as I recently pregnant my mom not allow me to go) my mom told me most of the relatives are try to talk to my aunt & ask her to let go as everyone are ok & dont wan her to suffer anymore :bye:

Its kinda sad to hear this but after abt an hours of talking she really just go peacefully...

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JUST my 2 cents.. my opinion.. die or no die.. is depends on the OWN person..

Life should be sustained, if the person hanging on the machine.. wants to sustained some more .

if the person wanna leave.. cannot tahan the pain.. or suffering.. then let her go...

from Buddhism .....

u need to pay ur "sins" ... the way how u die is a way paying ur sins.. ( but now technology is so good... every1 end up paying LONGER period, so choosing to pay longer or shorter.. is depends on the person wish )

for cases such as bed ridden for 10 years... is said tat.. paying their sins..

if now u din pay.. u will sooner or later pay it later on during ur nx life..

tat's wat buddhism tot..

no doubt if u STROKE and straight die... is a blessfull way of die in buddhism....

if u die in ur sleep.. this is oso bless by buddhism.

every1 eventually will die.. is depends how u die.. and wat u LEAVE behind in this world...

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In Buddhism if can die without any suffer then it call "福报"

JUST my 2 cents.. my opinion.. die or no die.. is depends on the OWN person..

Life should be sustained, if the person hanging on the machine.. wants to sustained some more .

if the person wanna leave.. cannot tahan the pain.. or suffering.. then let her go...

from Buddhism .....

u need to pay ur "sins" ... the way how u die is a way paying ur sins.. ( but now technology is so good... every1 end up paying LONGER period, so choosing to pay longer or shorter.. is depends on the person wish )

for cases such as bed ridden for 10 years... is said tat.. paying their sins..

if now u din pay.. u will sooner or later pay it later on during ur nx life..

tat's wat buddhism tot..

no doubt if u STROKE and straight die... is a blessfull way of die in buddhism....

if u die in ur sleep.. this is oso bless by buddhism.

every1 eventually will die.. is depends how u die.. and wat u LEAVE behind in this world...

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mmm good question. If I'm still awake I will tell them just let me go rather than to see me suffering from struggling to survive.

Now I remember my HB wrote a will, he told me I may need this will one day if he is unconscious and he gives me the right to let him goes early, I'm not joking, the will is ready and kept properly inside the drawer.

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got many tot's in my mind, sorry to kacau apekjolly threads

a bit off title..

jz to share

recently 1 of a close fren of mine.. got 4th stage cancer..

doctor say.. if DIN do anything.. it will be VERY PAINFULL for her..

if DO everything.. oso painfull.. and superb costly

din do... within 1 year

do .. mayb more than 1 year

her relatives... all are very sad... keep on askin.. y of all the things.. cancer.. and when they realize is already 4th stage..

but my tot's are.... at least now they giving u a time frame...

a period of time for u to do ur last wish, to see EVERY1 in the family b4 leaving ..

u will realise.. not everything in this world is so IMPORTANT.. money, career, LV bag.. watever is not important

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This is definitely a mixed emotion scenario for anyone who is into such a dilemma.

A friend of mine just lost his father 2 mths ago from cancer. Tears start flowing when he told me that his family has decided to let him go as they are not willing to see him suffer any longer. I know this is never an easy decision and I wish they had other choices. Anyhow, after much deliberation, the children decided to let him be since he is no longer conscious and was as if he has fallen into a deep sleep.

I believe that no one has the right to say that he/she can leave "now". Not even the person him/herself. Only GOD has the power/rights to do so. This is only from my point of view and it may not be what you want.

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I always believe, when you are still alive and owning your body, you are the master thus you have the right to decide for yourself and not god.

I'm a free thinker thus my thinking is different with anyone who has their own religion.

I know my though will offend lots of people =P sorry ya!

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Guess,

I'd never see anyone entering my thread as "kacau" if he or she has something to share. So, feel free to come in here as often as you wish. If only I could serve "my guests" tea I'd do so with a big smile and open arms.

Okay, back to the sad topic again: Personally, I feel that it is better to go if one is in pain and when there's absolutely no more hope of recovery. I always see it as more cruel to keep a person suffering longer than necessary.

Some people may use religion to say that life is in god's hand and nobody should make a decision to let a person die against god's wish. But then, they forget that by using machines to keep a person alive could be also be interpreted as going against god's wish, isn't it?

It is different when there's still a hope for a cure. But when pain is so unbearable and recovery is so obviously impossible, what is the point of going on in such a manner?

If one day I were to fall sick and in pain and the doctors say I have no chance, I would certainly choose death for myself. After all, death should be the ultimate peace for everyone.

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is very unbearable to see the 1 u concern suffer in pain...

but is also very unbearable to make the decision to MINUS the suffering and jz let he/her go...

is oso unberable to say goodbye to some1.. tat did not go thru any suffer.. BUT JUST OUT OF THE BLUE DIE..

after those in dillemma, a lot turn into religion...

mayb jz to save themself from bcomin crazy :dash2: jz to stay sane perhaps :)

i oso use to be free thinker... now i am half buddhism ~.~

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Thanks for opening up this topic, Apek.

When a person is terminally ill and desires death, it is not as a hot topic as a person who has lost all motor functions (but still retain his higher brain functions) and wishes death. There is a clinic in Zurich that conducts euthanasia for EU members as this form of "killing" is considered illegal. Many people - from paraplegics to the terminally ill have come to this clinic to conduct their own deaths; some without family members as they can be considered as aiding in a crime.

Can you imagine how strange this is? Someone wants to kill themselves and we die die (mind the pun) refuse to help because we argue that murder is against the law even if it means murdering yourself. Yet we don't really take people to court for dispensing the very medication that suicide victims use (save MJ's doctor) or developers who build multi-level buildings that people jump off from.

Anyway, going back to the topic - what IF your face became so diseased that you cannot step out in public without going through some form of mental and verbal torture? Is wanting death wrong?

Many anti-euthanasia argue that it is akin to murder; that these people can lead real quality of life (not talking about those terminally ill) and that they can be saved. But what if they don't want all those things? What happens when some people start believing that dying is definitely better than living?

I believe that the gist of this argument is this underlying principle - dying is better than living. Most of us out there who struggle with the everyday downs of life tell ourselves that it's hard, that it's worth the fight, and that living is worth everything. When a person comes in and challenges the status quo, we do a double turn and for better or worse, put that person down for wanting out, wanting out of the so-called life rat race that everyone has enrolled themselves in - some more "into" it than others.

For myself, I'm lukewarm on the matter. This was something I talked about with my father after having seen my grandfather died from two strokes (as a vegetable), my grandmother from liver cancer/diabetes and family friends who have died slowly and painfully from cancer. My father doesn't want to be remember as a being a burden and actually told me to let him die if he were to become an invalid or terminally ill. "I don't want to be remembered as someone who sucked the life out of life itself. Let me go coz by then, I would have already."

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hi meiteoh,

i did a research on this euthanasia b4..

a lot was afraid of mis-using it such as will.... such as property will go to who etc...

and... is always complicated for euthanasia..

if a grandma has 10 children.. 5 support on euthanasia... 5 do not... so wat should they do?

and that grandma has lose her ability to express herself... what should they do?

i got a grandpa who is bed ridden for 10 years... use tube to feed directly to his stomach... unconscious for 10 years.. jz recently pass away..

ya.. mayb he is suffering.. mayb he is not.. we donno is it he is sleeping for 10 years or wat..

but, at least my grandma still get to see him everyday..

touch him etc..

and at the end of the day.. when he really pass away... every1 is still sad to say goodbye to him

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This incident happen to me. My father was admitted into hospital due to sickness, doc told us he has done the best and nothing can be done. I saw my father in pain, I'm the eldest in family with a brother, so decision is on me.

I really do not want to see him in pain, so I agreed with doc to let him go early. Then....he past away in front of my eye. Heart is very pain, but is better see him suffer.

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I contemplated for some time before deciding to write in here. I know that by replying, it will turn on the waterworks on my end.

My father passed away 10 months ago due to cancer. Throughout his sickness which he fought for over 2 years, never once did my father express his wish to die. He was in a lot of pain, we all knew that. The cancer had spread from his lungs to his bones, and I had read online that cancer that has spread to the bone can be very, very very painful.

I am sure my dad knew what was coming. He received the Sacrament of The Sick (in Catholicism, an anointing of a person who is in danger of dying) twice, once when he was conscious and he agreed to it, and another time when he wasn't conscious.

Towards the end, he was in a deep sleep (sort of unconscious) and our family found it so hard to see him suffering the way he was. Many times I would pray with him, hold his hand, and towards the end, I even whispered to him that its ok to "let go", that its OK, that it will be alright. My dad's last words to me before he died two days later was "I love you darling". He never said that he wanted to give up or that he wanted to die.

I have taught my students in Uni (when I was lecturing back then) about euthanasia, choice in death etc. But I can tell you this, when it happens to you, its totally different altogether. Had my family been in the position to tell the doctor "to pull the plug", I don't think we would have done it.

After my dad died, people kept telling me that he's not suffering anymore, that it's for the better etc. But really, how do you know for sure?? I always feel that my dad has always wanted to live. That he had wanted to get better, and not resign himself to fate, to die.

If in a different situation, for instance, if a person is in a vegetative state for many years, perhaps being paralysed for years, his body may not be moving, he may seem dead, but no doctor can say for sure that the person WANTS to be dead. For all you know, his mind may be working (although not detected), and he wants to live, except that his body wont listen to what his mind states.

There have been many cases where people who are comatose suddenly awaken. I also remember vividly, this real case where this guy was a vegetable for about 23 years, and doctors all thought he was brain dead, but all the while his mind was "alive", he could hear and understand EVERYTHING those around him said. Of course, cases like this may be one in thousands, or millions even. Imagine if his family had decided to give up on him.

I would have to concur with homeofbeauties on this one, as I believe that its God who decides when you should go.

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It's one thing if they have never spoken about it or asked to die (like Tash's dad) BUT what if they have? That was my question.

If a person tells you that they want to die and asks for your help, what is your take on the matter? A lot of the cases regarding the Zurich clinic were people explicitly asking to die and to have their plugs pulled only to be rejected in their home countries (in the UK, aiding in euthanasia will land you in jail for 14 years). These people are not comatose but alive; they just don't want to live in their condition anymore, eg Craig Colby Ewert who suffered from amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, a neuron motor disease whereby your muscles will weaken and die, eventually causing organ shutdown (it is fatal). Do we dare call them cowards for wanting out?

I don't know - for myself, I'm quite lukewarm on the matter as I believe that while death is up to God, I also believe that people shouldn't be stopped from making their own decisions or choices (part of God's desire for us - free will).

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A person who is in a vegetative state may look unconscious because he cannot respond to any stimulus. But there is always a possibility that he may be conscious just like the comatose case that Tash has mentioned. The most unfortunate thing about this vegetative state is that the sufferer is unable to make his wish or feelings known by others. Thus, what this means is that, we can never know whether he is in pain or not. Even if he has no pain, he may be suffering under a form of emotional torture; which more or less is also a kind of pain. Thus, he may want to choose to go, but then he is unable to tell anyone regarding his wish. Imagine that 23 year-comatose case as someone who is suffering in pain for that length of time! How cruel it is to let a person languish in that condition for 23 years!

I don't know about others, but according to my present mental state of thinking, I would certainly wish death for myself if I were to become a total invalid and a burden to others. This is because, to me, life is already meaningless when I am unable to do things that I want to do. So, what for I want to live a meaningless life? What more to say if I can see that my existence is nothing more than just a liability to others. And need I say more if I were to be in pain as well? I don't want to be selfish in a sense that, for the sake of wanting to keep myself alive, I deprive others of their time, money and comfort. In other words, I feel that it is not fair for me to do that to burden others and incur a drain of resources to society. Don't forget it costs a fortune to medically care for the sick.

Now, my greatest fear is that, as I get older I may not be able to think like how I think now. With common old age illness like dementia or Alzheimer's disease, I may not be sane enough to make a sensible decision when the time comes. That is why I have already told my wife and kids about what my point of view is on this matter, in the hope that, should a situation arise one day that I need them to do my thinking for me, they should just go ahead and make decision for me.

Our country has not legalized euthanasia yet because we are bogged down by all kinds of beliefs and ideals which regard such mercy killing as unethical. Those of us who are against euthanasia may look and feel great now because in our minds we think we are upholding a kind of virtuous justice for humankind. But, should an unfortunate malady strike us in future and make writhe and groan in excruciating agony for days, weeks, months, or even years on end without any hope of recovery, that may be the time when we will change our mind to look upon euthanasia as a "life-saving" tool that we will quickly want to accept and use at any moment at that time.

But the danger is that, will we be able to make our wish known by that time?

I invite you all to think about this matter seriously now before it is too late.

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UPON FURTHER PONDERING

After further thinking over the matter deeply, I have decided that I must also write a Death Wish note for myself just like what beautifulgown's husband has done.

But I wonder if doctors will accept such a document as legal. Anyway, legal or not, at least I will have made my wish known just in case I will not be able to do so should such an unfortunate circumstance arise when my death comes.

And to make it really authentic, I will write the note with my own handwriting, sign it, and even thumbprint it. As an additional indication of legitimacy, I will have a photo taken of me holding the written note in my hand. In this way, nobody can say that it is a fake document produced by someone else without my knowledge.

I'm sorry to have posted such gloomy topic for discussion in this MB forum. But the issue is so important and so crucial that we must muster up our courage and confront it face to face.

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apekjolly,

ya is a gloomy topic...

i salute u to make the decision..

if i .. i still donno.. i will rather i donno and i don wan to think of it... jz let everything go by god will ~.~

a bit lazy and useless too say..

i really malas wanna think bout it.. if now ppl ask me wat will i choose

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this topic had me thinking.

my mom passed away 2 yrs back. she died of liver failure.

she was admitted a night before she passed on and i was there the whole night.

prior to that day she has been unwell but not suffering.

so when she was admitted and doctor asked us to be ready, i know that she wont be able to make it home again.

cut the story short, during her final moments, everyone was around, everyone bid their farewells, but i don't think she recognize us anymore.

she was on strong drugs.

as soon as her heart stop, the doctors came running and did a CPR on her.

i was furious, i mean whats the point? so that she could suffer for another few hrs???

the doctors explained it was their duty to save her and its not ethical to see her die just like that.

i mean i dont understand the logic, shes not to be saved! i mean, who are we kidding here. we all know its impossible to get a liver transplant just like that!!!

so the next 4 hrs she was in total pain and she was around all kinda machines.

it broke my heart. i had to leave the room and stayed at the cafe.

my hubby was there the whole time.

finally he called me in and said mom has left us.

it was about 12.20 when she passed away.

i was in tears but in a way, happy that she no longer suffer.

on the last day of her funeral, i swear am not making this up, but everyone saw her smiling before they closed the coffin.

i do miss her everyday, i cry when i think of her, just like now.

but am truly happy shes finally free of pain, free of suffering. i miss you mom :bye:

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