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Vievie

Ending it ?

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Me and my husband have been ROM for 4 years and no actual banquet yet, we are not staying together either. Recently we have been arguing and things are getting from bad to worst . It started last year around July 2009 , on and off we quarrel and we got back . We were thinking of getting a divorce right now . For the past few year whenever we quarrel we will talk to each other after a few days. But now things change , he blamed that I change and I blamed that he change. So thats no wrong or right for us . When we quarrel for the last time he said he wanted a divorce and after that day we quarrel we dont talk to each other anymore , it been about a month .

We cannot communicate anymore , whenever we talk to each other it will end my arguing and blaming each other . I do not know what should I do , He wanted a divorce and yet there's no news from him . I do not know at his side is he actually seeking the lawyer or he is just enjoying the day with out me .

Please advise and I am confused right now ? What should I do now ?

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ROM for 4 years and no ceremony or banquet? You have to be kidding me.

You guys don't even live together? Then why bother getting married in the first place? I don't know, but does it bother you that you don't get to go through the wonderful perils of being a beautiful bride, solemnizing your marriage, etc. ?

What is a marriage to you? To me, it just seems like all you did was sign a piece of paper. In the eyes of the law you are married but in the eyes of your relatives, religion, etc. you are not married....

Please do yourself a favor, set yourself free and find a REAL man that can truly make you happy instead of staying with someone because 'it is hard to let go and you are afraid of being alone'.

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Am a bit confused after ROM, you both didn't bother to have a customary ceremony? Personal reason? Then why ROM that early in the first place? Another confusing matter, why are both of you not living together, working in different country?

Then why commit yourself into this marriage when there are no further plans?

I am not sure what kind of arguments were you both having but in a relationship it needs both parties commitment but also need tolerance from each side of parties, can't always be the male whom tolerate.

I just see that there are no interest in being a solemnized husband and wife. Probably you all made a rush decision due to your own personal reasons.

If you really want things to work out, after arguing even few hours or a day after you will call him back and sort things out and not let for a month!

Decision is on your hand...this is only my point of view, no offence.

Best of luck!

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Me and my husband have been ROM for 4 years and no actual banquet yet, we are not staying together either. Recently we have been arguing and things are getting from bad to worst . It started last year around July 2009 , on and off we quarrel and we got back . We were thinking of getting a divorce right now . For the past few year whenever we quarrel we will talk to each other after a few days. But now things change , he blamed that I change and I blamed that he change. So thats no wrong or right for us . When we quarrel for the last time he said he wanted a divorce and after that day we quarrel we dont talk to each other anymore , it been about a month .

We cannot communicate anymore , whenever we talk to each other it will end my arguing and blaming each other . I do not know what should I do , He wanted a divorce and yet there's no news from him . I do not know at his side is he actually seeking the lawyer or he is just enjoying the day with out me .

Please advise and I am confused right now ? What should I do now ?

Seriously, how you youngsters handle marriage today really amuses me. A little bit of crap, divorce, a little bit of dirt, separate. I think all youngsters below 35 today should be educated about what marriage is before they go into it.

Number 1, marriage does not mean happiness in your days and night. Marriage is a commitment. Not a course you enroll and when you find it difficult, leave. It is not even a commitment of when you fail you leave in fact it fails only when you leave.

Of course, if he hits you, drunkard, steal your money. That is considerable for a separation. But arguments? Do you guys really sometimes think about it?

Remember when we were all young kids...my brother's son used to tell me when he got home that he's not going to `friend' Albert anymore because he always fight with him. He also don't want to 'friend' Kok Hin anymore because he takes his eraser and didnt' return it. Marriage in people today, is very much like that. A connection of childish thought. Seriously, there is a reason why they have something called marriage. If it is something that you let go after you fight 20 times in a month for the next 2 years, they would've set up something called 'partnership'. What's the difference with a business model anyways? Loving isn't so much about letting go when they make you feel unhappy isn't it?

I am not saying it's you. I am saying now it's both of you. Both of you got to get some spanking. Sorry to talk like a mother, I am one anyways. But really, both of you need a mother to come in the middle, scold you...and say, now....you...make up with her and say sorry, and you....say sorry as well. Now hug!

I think the new generation of youngsters, just never grew from the days when they're 7 years old.

Rethink, before you consider. Both has got to ask yourself if you are doing the right thing for the other. Not ask if you are getting the right thing from the other. If both ask that way, it simply means, both parties engage into something expecting something. Then it's obvious the disappointment.

If you guys need a middle man, I know one couple who is doing it without a fee. But they are christian couple.

If you're comfortable, I can give you their contact to call.

Be blessed and have a good day. Always ask what you can do for the other, not what you can get from the other.

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Vievie,

mmm .. we don't know what's the cause of the quarrel, always the same topic? or each time have new topic/issue comes up?

We don't know the reason behind why there is no ceremony after 4 yrs of ROM and not staying together. But what your case sounds similar to my friend, ROM after knowing each other less than 4 mths (while they are still in the 'honeymoon' period in their relationship) and the marriage doesn't last long, 2 yrs later they went for divorce (a peaceful one) in their case I will say childish!!! And this couple are not mean to be husband and wife, we knew them too well but they still insist with their decision - ROM then later divorce and their divorce are not to our surprise (bad right) we are sort of waiting for the moment to come.

Vievie, if you really need our help maybe you can tell us a little bit more about the story from the day dating till ROM and till now a divorce maybe.

citibankvisa,

Do you know even a married couple for more than 30 years will also go under a divorce? if that's the case how you explain it? childish as well?

If you are into their situation, you will understand why some couple just cannot reconcile and a divorce is a must to settle the problems.

Some men are not a drunker, not violence, not doing bad things but attitude problem, do you think it is easy to change a person's attitude? It is possible but never easy.

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citbankvisa,

"Both has got to ask yourself if you are doing the right thing for the other. Not ask if you are getting the right thing from the other."

I particularly like the above-quoted statement of yours. You're right. Most people never stop to ask that question. And it is, sad to say, a natural human trait. Humans, by instinct, are self-centered. That is the original source of most human squabbles. It is the pursuit of self-interest which makes us unable to recognize the interest of others.

We want others to love us, but we forget to love others. We want others to respect us, but we forget to respect others. We want others to be generous and compromising to us, but we forget to do likewise back to others. We want others to ignore our bad characters, but we cannot accept other people's bad characters. Well, the list goes on - endless. And the worst thing is that, a lot of us are not even aware of those selfish features in us. We can only see it in others, but not in ourselves.

And the most fertile ground for that problem to ferment is in the relationship of a marriageable couple because of the "we and them" syndrome, that is ... I, my family, my relatives, my friends on this side; and she or he, his family, his relatives, his friends on the other side. Let me give an example of where an issue may arise here: we may like to have many interactions with with people of our own side, but when it comes to dealing with our spouse's side, we don't like it. And because we don't like it, we automatically "switch on our scanning radar to detect for the tiniest offensive movements of the enemy side." Thus, anything can become an issue and give us a reason to become angry and therefore pick a quarrel with our spouse over the matter.

As a human person, we have the tendency to expect everything to flow according to our liking; and when things don't flow according to our wish, we become irritated. Let me repeat: Self-interest is the culprit. If we can rid ourselves of this self-interest "devil" in us, we can overcome a lot of unhappiness in our life.

I'm going to say something which most of you won't agree with me.

Even to do good in the name of god may be a form of self-interest for some people.

Why? Because these people may be driven by motivation to do good just to gain favors from god so that god will send them to enjoy life in heaven next time. Now, if that is not self-interest, what is that?

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Vievie,

mmm .. we don't know what's the cause of the quarrel, always the same topic? or each time have new topic/issue comes up?

We don't know the reason behind why there is no ceremony after 4 yrs of ROM and not staying together. But what your case sounds similar to my friend, ROM after knowing each other less than 4 mths (while they are still in the 'honeymoon' period in their relationship) and the marriage doesn't last long, 2 yrs later they went for divorce (a peaceful one) in their case I will say childish!!! And this couple are not mean to be husband and wife, we knew them too well but they still insist with their decision - ROM then later divorce and their divorce are not to our surprise (bad right) we are sort of waiting for the moment to come.

Vievie, if you really need our help maybe you can tell us a little bit more about the story from the day dating till ROM and till now a divorce maybe.

citibankvisa,

Do you know even a married couple for more than 30 years will also go under a divorce? if that's the case how you explain it? childish as well?

If you are into their situation, you will understand why some couple just cannot reconcile and a divorce is a must to settle the problems.

Some men are not a drunker, not violence, not doing bad things but attitude problem, do you think it is easy to change a person's attitude? It is possible but never easy.

Hi,

I've known people who are married for 30 years in fact. But usually if they divorce after 30 years, it is usually because of a third party or they just can't stand that guy looking for prostitute, or the woman having an affair outside. Very seldom it is because of attitude. Why is that so if you may ask. Simple, if you have endured the attitude for the past 30 years, assuming you marry at the age of 30, you're now 60 years old, you're still going to be bothered by his/her attitude? I would still call that childish.

If it would be because of attitude, you would've left long ago. Never 30 years.

No it is not easy to change a person's attitude. But that is the wrong perception that every human has. You just don't change people's attitude. Everyone I know who lasted happily for a long long time understand this fact. When I asked them about what's their secret, their answer would always be, continue to love. You don't plan, or try to change and it is when you try to change, you turn the other party off. We women, tend to try to change men. Knowing men for this many years, I know one thing about them. When you try to change them, they wouldn't be interested in you anymore. First, they are prideful being. When you try to change them, they translate it as, you think they are not good enough, hence they will resist. The more they resist, the more they will take you as an enemy.

I went to a marriage seminar before by this world speaker, I forgot his name. He told the seminar one statement that change my life.

A story he relates....

" I don't like roller coaster rides, but I ride it anyways....because my wife loves them. When LOVE fails....LOVE more...not stop loving! "

I hope every bride or groom, wife or husband, gf or bf here take note of this.

The ancient chinese has a saying, to turn good 3 years, turning bad.....3 days. So you don't need to remind me how easy it is to change a person's attitude. When you try to change them, the problem is with you. You know them before you married them, then you try to change them after you marry them. That is what I call seeking for ideals for yourself. You go into the relationship to make him happy or to make yourself happy? Changing him/her is making him/her happy? I have never read such definition before in my 52 years of life.

So keep this in mind for everyone, boy girl man and woman. Never talk about changing your partner. Why need to change them? If you love them, accept them. If you can't accept them, don't love them in the first place. And if you love them and you accept them, when they see your love, they will want to change because they want to love you more, not because they are forced. When you change them, you bend the bamboo...what happens after that? You break the bamboo...cause they're just not bendable.

Let me share you a scenario here. You know gardeners and housewife sometimes like to bend flowers to face a certain direction so that it looked more perfect...as they would like it. They tie it to some stick or some pole hoping after a year or two, it would stay there. But it usually dies before it does. But the wise one does it differently. They allow more sunlight to shine at one particular area...so that the flower automatically faces there eventually because they need light to process food.

Now relate this to your relationship. The sun is your love. The flower is your spouse. The stick represents your eager attitude to change their attitude. Bear this in mind, when you're trying to change them, it is also a sort of attitude problem they see. Try not to stand only from our own selfish perspective then we will notice, yea...that's true. Just imagine back your spouse trying to change your attitude. You would be happy you mean?

So, when you tie the flower to a stick, it is like trying to change your spouses attitude. What happens? They die, they go by force. A few lucky ones may be able to get it done. But notice this, the flower will never look as natural.

Now you give them sun, more sun.. that represents your love. Now you attract the flower to bend there naturally, which represents the man changes for you because he cannot bear seeing you unhappy. How can he feel so? Simple, though not easy....is that your abundant love has manage to move his heart and he loves you more and more each day.

Ladies and gentleman ( this applies not only to the ladies ), remember...it is when one is trying to change the other, wonder why the other is so bad, which is the problem. You can only change yourself, you can never change the other. If they change, it is your bonus, it is your reward. 5 out of 10 divorce cases I know when I ask them why, their answer would revolve around changing their partners and it failed. Your partner is not your project. You don't fail changing him. You can only fail changing yourself. The saying goes, one notices the sand in your partner's eye, but not the log in front of yours. People's sin and attitude always seemed to be the problem...never ourselves.

One of my muslim friend I know 7 years ago said this the best, " We don't question what the other person do, whether it is wrong or right, they are answerable to God, but we have to watch what we do, what we give, what we are. For it is not our responsibility to change others, but it is our responsibility to change ourselves. "

Cheers and hope it opens up to new perspective of life.

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i agree with ApekJolly on the matter. everyone are selfish and i believe sometimes is the 'selfish evil' inside us that cause the dissapointment, expectation, resetment, fights, etc.

As the old saying goes, it is not easy to find someone who you are willing to give your love, support without expecting any returns!! How many fairy tales that you heard during your childhood is actually exist? I think you should really have an open and calm communication with your hubby / bf/ whatever you may want to call! Do you really need the divorce? Can you still compromise with each other? please be honest to yourself. It is always safe to tackle the situation earlier, before you have kids. You gonna face this person for the rest of your life. Do not give up before you try! I am sure things will not be that bad? even it is, there is always a lesson to learn.

All The Best.

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citbankvisa,

"Both has got to ask yourself if you are doing the right thing for the other. Not ask if you are getting the right thing from the other."

I particularly like the above-quoted statement of yours. You're right. Most people never stop to ask that question. And it is, sad to say, a natural human trait. Humans, by instinct, are self-centered. That is the original source of most human squabbles. It is the pursuit of self-interest which makes us unable to recognize the interest of others.

We want others to love us, but we forget to love others. We want others to respect us, but we forget to respect others. We want others to be generous and compromising to us, but we forget to do likewise back to others. We want others to ignore our bad characters, but we cannot accept other people's bad characters. Well, the list goes on - endless. And the worst thing is that, a lot of us are not even aware of those selfish features in us. We can only see it in others, but not in ourselves.

And the most fertile ground for that problem to ferment is in the relationship of a marriageable couple because of the "we and them" syndrome, that is ... I, my family, my relatives, my friends on this side; and she or he, his family, his relatives, his friends on the other side. Let me give an example of where an issue may arise here: we may like to have many interactions with with people of our own side, but when it comes to dealing with our spouse's side, we don't like it. And because we don't like it, we automatically "switch on our scanning radar to detect for the tiniest offensive movements of the enemy side." Thus, anything can become an issue and give us a reason to become angry and therefore pick a quarrel with our spouse over the matter.

As a human person, we have the tendency to expect everything to flow according to our liking; and when things don't flow according to our wish, we become irritated. Let me repeat: Self-interest is the culprit. If we can rid ourselves of this self-interest "devil" in us, we can overcome a lot of unhappiness in our life.

I'm going to say something which most of you won't agree with me.

Even to do good in the name of god may be a form of self-interest for some people.

Why? Because these people may be driven by motivation to do good just to gain favors from god so that god will send them to enjoy life in heaven next time. Now, if that is not self-interest, what is that?

Hi Apek,

You impress me! Perhaps maybe it is when two old minds meet, we tend to see it and think the same. LOL. No. We're all still young! Old people won't know how to come to the internet and post in forums.

I am now confirmed, not "most people". I do agree with you about the doing good in the name of god matter. I always question people, if one day...god send you his angels/messenger ( a really reliable magical one, not thru humans ), and tell you this :

" Hey, you're now on your own. There will be no heaven, it is now filled. You will live your life as it is, if hell is still empty you can go there. But no more heaven for you. God will be retiring, he no longer cares and he will go for a permanent vacation elsewhere. You can do whatever you want after this, no one will be judging you, or rewarding you anymore "

Question is, would you still do good. If you would.....I will respect you. And I believe there are people like that. Nothing is absolute.

But how often do we see them?

Kudos to your point!

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i agree with ApekJolly on the matter. everyone are selfish and i believe sometimes is the 'selfish evil' inside us that cause the dissapointment, expectation, resetment, fights, etc.

As the old saying goes, it is not easy to find someone who you are willing to give your love, support without expecting any returns!! How many fairy tales that you heard during your childhood is actually exist? I think you should really have an open and calm communication with your hubby / bf/ whatever you may want to call! Do you really need the divorce? Can you still compromise with each other? please be honest to yourself. It is always safe to tackle the situation earlier, before you have kids. You gonna face this person for the rest of your life. Do not give up before you try! I am sure things will not be that bad? even it is, there is always a lesson to learn.

All The Best.

The ever kind ms_loke has spoken! Yea we got to try. Marriage is a road where we try `forever'. Many don't seem to understand what forever means. To most, I believe forever means 10 years, then they'll say this " Enough already, it's enough! "

That isn't what's promised in most wedding vow..

Wedding vows today has become literally useless and has become just an act of ritual practise for the sake of tradition today.

What ever happened to in sickness and in health, in good times and bad times?

Many says they don't believe in marriage anymore after a failure or two. They are not wrong. They are actually half right. They actually never believed in it in the first place. They never practice it anyways.

Allow me to tell you one grandmother story again. Sorry yes I am that naggy.. Yes also my children will run away from me. Lol.

When I was young, I notice that my father is a very reserved man. He rarely talks and when he does, he rarely speaks nicely to anyone. Not to me, not to my mother. He gets irritated easily and will shout when he wants to. The typical chinaman we call it. He's now 82 years of age. He has a dog when about I was 23 I think. This dog I still remember is a very fearful dog. But a loving one. Once she trust you, she sticks to you. When you argue with family members and shout, she'll flip her ears back and go somewhere slowly to hide. My dad, doesn't like dogs actually. He bought her for guarding the house. But he regret since first week he bought her complaining she's smelly and all. But we love the dog so much, she even lived among us inside the house instead of being a dog to guard the house. For months, my dad hated her and would restrict her from going any place in the house other than her own designated location.

The dog continued to get mocked and insulted by my dad for being stupid, smelly and all. Byt after months and months.....

My dad became a different person. He speaks gently. He speaks to the dog as though he's a kind and gentle woman even. He acts cute with the dog and will protect the dog if anyone threatens her. He's even ready to pick a fight with anyone who tries to harm our dog. Now, what changed him? No the dog didn't ask my dad to change. She didn't tell him that his shouting isn't desired in this house. his attitude is bad, etc. She just snuggled beside him all the time, irregardless of how many times my dad rejected her, mock her, call her a stupid smelly dog and walk away from her. You know what? She never once give up, or she never once mind. You can say the dog won't understand the mocking. But she sure understand the shouting. Did she stay away? She didn't...upon my dad's call of her name....she run towards him like she's ready to serve. Upon my dad's return from work, she'd be so happy as though she haven't met him in ages. My dad starts to feel wanted, loved in an unconditional way, despite his attitude, roughness and rudeness sometimes even.

What changed this man? Undying, unconditional love. It took years to change him. It took my mother years but never once got him to change. My dog, changed him in matter of 2 years. She was patient. She was there. She never judge. She just love. She isn't looking for food, she just like to snuggle beside you when you're around and nothing else. Hence my dad let down his guard knowing the dog's intention is pure.

I am not asking for any of us to be like a dog, in fact some told me, to call a human like a dog, is an insult to the dog. LOL!

I think I need not say more, but look at the story and hopefully it would enlighten people around here who reads it. My dad is known for his temper among his peers. High ranking people, police officers even does not mess with him.

But my dog turn him into a....somewhat...feminine. Think about how my dog does that. I emulate.....which keeps my relationship going for years long.

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citibank, I have dogs myself and fully understand what you were refering to. Gald to know your 'doggy style' approach work for you & your hubby.

But I think different people might need different approach to handle. As you said, even your mum failed to change your dad.

I feel for someone to give unconditional love in modern days is rare. Not that I dont believe in love. But I feel there are more demands & complications in life now that love alone are not enough to solve everything.

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Vievie, legally speaking, its not important why you did not do the wedding ceremony. I won't even ask why. But what is interesting is that you said that you are not living together and this, I have to ask why.

Other questions to ask.

1. Is the fact that you are not living together contributing to the problems

2. If you live together, will it solve your current problems

3. Is there is third party

I am sure that when you did the ROM, both you and your HB must have made some plans and roadmap, What happened from then until now. Your problems cannot have happened overnight.

Finally, the most important question is "Do you still love your HB and can you still see a future with him?". After you have answered all these questions, you will know the answer to your question, should you leave or stay.

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citibank, I have dogs myself and fully understand what you were refering to. Gald to know your 'doggy style' approach work for you & your hubby.

But I think different people might need different approach to handle. As you said, even your mum failed to change your dad.

I feel for someone to give unconditional love in modern days is rare. Not that I dont believe in love. But I feel there are more demands & complications in life now that love alone are not enough to solve everything.

Seriously Keka,

I hope you're not trying to poke stupid fun when you use the term " doggy style " approach. If you are, it is really unappreciated and regardless of your gender, I would consider that sexual harassment and perhaps the admin here would like to know about it.

Second of all, when I mentioned even my mum failed to, I literally mean she failed to. Yes, she herself failed to understand what real unconditional love really is. Until the whole incident and she finally knows, it isn't about making your partner change.

Love is love. Approach is an act, love is a gift. You got to be able to differentiate.

I love my daughter doesn't mean I have to give her whatever she wants and demands. Someone else who don't give everything to their child, doesn't mean they don't love them either. But it's love. It's how much you love them, not how much you love yourself. When people self pity sit one corner and keep asking how come my spouse doesn't treat me well, that is self pity and that is also considered self loving.

As I said above, love another is about giving. Loving yourself is about receiving. Choose your path and craft your way. There are lots of complications in this world yes, but the basics remains the same. Complications happen to one of my friend, which is a second wife of a very rich man. She complains complication as, she don't understand why that rich man don't really love her doesn't give her the attention she wants. I then question her that if she would be happy and would want to be with that man if she didn't get her mercedes slk and a luxurious codominium in Mont Kiara. She answered, no...cause those are what I need.

Many complications happened because we don't know what we want, not because love don't work. Do you love the right thing, or do you chase for the wrong. You chase for vacations and big cars, don't complain when you don't get love. You chase for your husband to talk nicely to you, don't complain about love. It is ourselves who demanded something, if not all the time, most of the time.

If you do not demand, you will not have disappointment. If you do not need your husband to be devoted to you, if you do not demand that your husband speak to you like a gentleman, if you do not demand your husband to provide you with big houses, there will be no disappointment.

If truly you love, and tell yourself...all I ever wanted is that my husband/wife stay healthy and alive so that I can love him/her more each day. See if you would have disappointment. That is what I call unconditional love. Something many mediocre cannot seem to understand.

When you complain, you are demanding, because you didn't get what you want, it is already not unconditional love. Love is not easy, but it is simple.

Just like how Warren Buffet puts it, the happiest person may not necessarily have everything in the world, they just appreciate anything that they have today. Even if that includes your husband/wife not giving you the things you hope you would get.

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Seriously citibank, If all the women in this world think like you & showing unconditional love, there will be more happy husbands out there and less divorces. Perhaps less conflicts and less war as well. With your explainations, I could imagine Bush showing unconditional love to Saddam already. :wub: Than the world will be at peace. Just joking, dont be too serious.

As for vievie, failing to communicate between both parties might be the final straw. If you cant communicate and cant even tolerate each other after 4 years. Where do you see yourself in another 4years time?

Since you have no kid now and only legal matter stand between you & freedom.

Why not end it now rather drag in another 2 years than realise it really doesnt work?

Chinese saying, short pain better than long suffering.

Cheers

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Wow , I was so touch that actually there's so many out there still care for my problem , I thought I was alone , but now I know I am not . Sorry for the late reply because I was reading and absorbing all the interesting replies .

Well , I really do not know how to start and tell my problems . As you know its started 8 years back . Me and him dated for 4 years , we ROM then now another 4 years .

He dont come from a rich family ,we struggle when we started and until today he is someone . I do not know why when his career is at the peak he wanted to separate everything from me . We used to have savings togather , and right now he said he wanted to have his own saving . I was working at the same office with him and he ask me to move out and he said this will be better because we wont argue more , because when we work together we do argue alot ,. So i moved out . And the company close down and now he had a new job at a club as a consultant .

Things happen when he started to work under this so called ( Tai ko ) of a famous club, when he started he will always tell me about his boss , he bought this and that , money is not a problem for the boss , the boss have the power to do whatever he want , and somehow my HB had a quite high post in this company . So from what I feel its all influence from the boss and also the people around him . He always work late and also he will need to mix with his customer which is those young girls who go cubbing all night . The way he talk to me are different , what ever he said I must listen and when I am giving some suggestion he would not want to listen to me at all . So mean I cant even talk , whatever he said I must listen . Do you think its right ? He will use very hurt & rude words on me , I do not know why suddenly he change alot .

I do found out that he is sms & email girls those girls that he met at the club and when I asked him he said its just his customer , he want entertain them because want them to go to the club for drink . So its something like a business . He cant stop that , is this right or wrong , am I too sensitive ? Or he is too over ?

Last time when we quarrel he still will make an effort to get me back , call me , look for me . But not for now , when we quarrel he will just not talk to me ,and I call him he will off his phone . He is avoiding me and avoiding the truth . He do not want to face it .

Until today its already 1 month , since the last day we had argument , I do not know when is the best time to talk to him , I am afraid that if I make the first move and talk to him it will make the situation worst . I do not know is he ready to talk about it or he still enjoying his party down there without me .

Please advise me what should I ask him if I want to make the first move to talk about our situation .

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I was thinking of going to meet him today , because I cannot tahan already , but not until you guys give me the best advise . I need to be ready with everything before I go for the battle . SO i need the bullets from you guys , please help . Thanks

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Seriously citibank, If all the women in this world think like you & showing unconditional love, there will be more happy husbands out there and less divorces. Perhaps less conflicts and less war as well. With your explainations, I could imagine Bush showing unconditional love to Saddam already. :wub: Than the world will be at peace. Just joking, dont be too serious.

As for vievie, failing to communicate between both parties might be the final straw. If you cant communicate and cant even tolerate each other after 4 years. Where do you see yourself in another 4years time?

Since you have no kid now and only legal matter stand between you & freedom.

Why not end it now rather drag in another 2 years than realise it really doesnt work?

Chinese saying, short pain better than long suffering.

Cheers

If you use your eye a little bit to read everything I wrote, I was suggesting that it does not mean that unconditional should come from woman alone. It should come from every human being. These are ideals. And just because ideals are not totally possible, doesn't mean you shouldn't try. The majority of humans doesn't .. hence you notice that there are only a few rich ones, few great ones and the rest of the world remain as "common people " because they are not capable of being great and seeing beyond. When I am talking seriously, I'd expect some respect without poking fun at people's statement. If you are that childish to play a fool when a someone is talking to you, you obviously don't know how to respect hence what makes you think you should be advising anyone? Save yourself the trouble and first do something about yourself. Then come back to give people a positive light to life, rather than negativity. You seemed to be very cynical hence it cause me to wonder if you're married of have a partner. You must have been hurt or been betrayed in your own personal life causing you to be like this. If not, I don't know how someone would stay happy with such negativity.

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Wow , I was so touch that actually there's so many out there still care for my problem , I thought I was alone , but now I know I am not . Sorry for the late reply because I was reading and absorbing all the interesting replies .

Well , I really do not know how to start and tell my problems . As you know its started 8 years back . Me and him dated for 4 years , we ROM then now another 4 years .

He dont come from a rich family ,we struggle when we started and until today he is someone . I do not know why when his career is at the peak he wanted to separate everything from me . We used to have savings togather , and right now he said he wanted to have his own saving . I was working at the same office with him and he ask me to move out and he said this will be better because we wont argue more , because when we work together we do argue alot ,. So i moved out . And the company close down and now he had a new job at a club as a consultant .

Things happen when he started to work under this so called ( Tai ko ) of a famous club, when he started he will always tell me about his boss , he bought this and that , money is not a problem for the boss , the boss have the power to do whatever he want , and somehow my HB had a quite high post in this company . So from what I feel its all influence from the boss and also the people around him . He always work late and also he will need to mix with his customer which is those young girls who go cubbing all night . The way he talk to me are different , what ever he said I must listen and when I am giving some suggestion he would not want to listen to me at all . So mean I cant even talk , whatever he said I must listen . Do you think its right ? He will use very hurt & rude words on me , I do not know why suddenly he change alot .

I do found out that he is sms & email girls those girls that he met at the club and when I asked him he said its just his customer , he want entertain them because want them to go to the club for drink . So its something like a business . He cant stop that , is this right or wrong , am I too sensitive ? Or he is too over ?

Last time when we quarrel he still will make an effort to get me back , call me , look for me . But not for now , when we quarrel he will just not talk to me ,and I call him he will off his phone . He is avoiding me and avoiding the truth . He do not want to face it .

Until today its already 1 month , since the last day we had argument , I do not know when is the best time to talk to him , I am afraid that if I make the first move and talk to him it will make the situation worst . I do not know is he ready to talk about it or he still enjoying his party down there without me .

Please advise me what should I ask him if I want to make the first move to talk about our situation .

Hi Vivie,

I do feel you. Number 1, the most important thing you got to have in your head is maturity into handling problems. Now I know many does not have that until they are almost about to die, and even so...some remain like a child.

Take some time alone and think rationally. Confrontation is to save relationship, not to give ultimatum. It is difficult for advise giving her as all we know is what we hear from you say over here. Without knowing the guy personally it is difficult to judge. You did not mention earlier about his job as a consultant in a club and girls and all those stories.

He's basically influenced. That is how change takes place. Like I said, nobody can change the other. But they definitely can be influence to change. Working in a club, with a "tai ko" isn't exactly a good influence. Do you think that the taiko will ask him to love his wife and be good, go back to her and don't mistreat her? No they won't. Humans basically looks at figure whom they deemed far greater than them as a role model. When he see his boss being able to afford luxury, commands power and also anything else he wanted, he started to shake and believe that this is his role model. On that, there is basically nothing much you can do. It was his decision to work under such circumstances, in the first place, he shouldn't. A "famous" club isn't exactly a healthy working environment if you know what I mean.

I can only wish you good luck in your conversation with him. If he didn't care, he most probably won't care as well if you wanted to separate with him. Money can blind. You sound like a sweet young girl. I assure you to continue to be yourself. Do not be influenced by any bad and change yourself even if this time it doesn't work out. That you must promise yourself. I have my own thoughts about how this is going to turn out but I wouldn't want to tell you. Perhaps it is just a cycle and a way of life you have to face by yourself in order to grow into a better person.

There are only a few key words I can present to you.

Be calm, be confident, be rational..know what you want, be firm but not fierce. Differentiate what's good and bad. You will be just fine girl!

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That is what I am doing it right now , I am trying to think rationally and I do not want to give up before I try for the last time . This will be out last conversation if we are going to end this that is why I am giving my self and him time and not to talk to him for a month . I do hope he will really think about it or maybe he already have the answer with him . I am just waiting for the last decision to make

Or should I start by email him first ?

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That is what I am doing it right now , I am trying to think rationally and I do not want to give up before I try for the last time . This will be out last conversation if we are going to end this that is why I am giving my self and him time and not to talk to him for a month . I do hope he will really think about it or maybe he already have the answer with him . I am just waiting for the last decision to make

Whatever the outcome, know that you have a whole load of friends behind you. The most important thing is that you stay strong, stay true. You're a good and brave young lady!

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Me and my husband have been ROM for 4 years and no actual banquet yet, we are not staying together either. Recently we have been arguing and things are getting from bad to worst. It started last year around July 2009, on and off we quarrel and we got back. We were thinking of getting a divorce right now. For the past few year whenever we quarrel we will talk to each other after a few days. But now things change, he blamed that I change and I blamed that he change. So thats no wrong or right for us. When we quarrel for the last time he said he wanted a divorce and after that day we quarrel we dont talk to each other anymore, it been about a month.

We cannot communicate anymore, whenever we talk to each other it will end my arguing and blaming each other. I do not know what should I do, He wanted a divorce and yet there's no news from him. I do not know at his side is he actually seeking the lawyer or he is just enjoying the day with out me.

Please advise and I am confused right now? What should I do now?

Hmmm, quite a shock 2 hear ur story. Remember last time my mom told me, not 2 ROM so early. She dun want anything happen after that. Becos u have 2 get through lawyer than. N u 2 havent stay in. After my wedding, I stay wif my MIL cos our house was not completed yet. But now v oledi moved in2 our own house la. B4 v get married, v oso quarrel a lot especially bout $$. Very sensitive issue. V struggle very hard 2 save $$. V stil cont 2 have this problem after our wedding n everytime after quarrel, I have 2 make happy face in from of my in-laws. :dash2: I say 2 myself I have 2 b patience. But this oledi past. Now, wat v oways quarrel a lot is about house chore lo. Every week only me alone do all. I dun expect him 2 do la but at least sumtimes he can help me. At 1st I stil can patience but sumtimes v fight oso. But when I think back, so silly. By right all this job have 2 done by us ma. :blush: I try 2 think the +ve way. But if I m reali tired, then I ask him 2 help me. Plus I have backbone problems, sumtimes he wil help oso when he saw me carry heavy things. If v quarrel, the next day wil b ok. Either u or ur hubby have 2 give n take. But nut oways v as wife have 2 b patience. If reali he is wrong, then u have make him admit it. But if ur hubby say wanted a divorce, then u have 2 think very clearly. U 2 should sit down in a quiet place n discuss what's the problem n wether can it b solved. I canot just sit n wait. Dun wait till u have child, then the problems wil only get 2 worst. OK. All the best.

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I would suggest you sms him to tell him you wanna talk to him instead of just drop by at the place. it may complicate the situation. Give him sometime to digest your intention before meeting him to discuss. i know is not easy to do, but you must be calm when talking. remember, your intention was to tailor things out, not to pick fight.... Hope you'll have a clear path after talking.

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I am confused , I thought of SMS but I am afraid that he might say no to our meeting . If I just go at his place I am afraid that he isn't ready to talk . So how ?

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Hi Vivie

to me, i always think it is better to pre-warn him before meeting up. You may sms / call him but if he said no, just tell him that you need to sort out the issue with him once and for all. Give him the day & time that you are coming. I think he is mature enuf to have a clear talk with you.

put it in a nice way. whatever the situation may arise, just be prepared lor. I guess deep inside you already have an answer for yourself, it's just waiting for the moment to speak it out and clear the air.whatever good that come out is a bonus. If it dont, at least you have an answer and move on. It's never easy but this is gonna be your learning path and you lose nothing.

I am confused , I thought of SMS but I am afraid that he might say no to our meeting . If I just go at his place I am afraid that he isn't ready to talk . So how ?

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I am confused , I thought of SMS but I am afraid that he might say no to our meeting . If I just go at his place I am afraid that he isn't ready to talk . So how ?

May I suggest that you ask your parents / relatives to be close by (but not seen by your HB) in case things go ugly. Looking at your recent additional post, there is a high possibiity that things could go ugly.

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