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Dilemma with Marriage

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Hi,

I have an email here, showing the conversation of a husband and wife, after a major arguement due to some small issue.. sorry, a bit long email conversation...

Can any kind soul tell me, who is wrong, who is correct here? Is the wife correct with her thinking or the husband is correct in his thinking?

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Email: Man

I am OK, don't worry.

I admit I good to you with intention and hoping for returns. Buy you things, bring you eat nice food, bring you shopping, try to be nice to you all with intention,

But my intentions and hoping for returns is for you to be good to me, to be nice to me, to listen to me.

You need to understand the works of life…everything we do, there is a trade off…it is always 'ying and yang'

Is it wrong for a husband to have such intention? Is it wrong to have such hope? I am not hoping for any bad returns, I am just hoping for a return from my wife to be good to me.

I am not greedy to hope for big money return, or fame, fortune, women, etc…

I am just hoping for return from my wife to be good to me, to have a happy family…

Or is my intention wrong all these while? Is it that I should even hope to get return when I good to my wife? Or should I don't even be good to my wife at the first place, so that I won't have such expectation? Such intention… But the again, is my intention bad? I really don't think so…

I believe everyone do something in hoping to get some return in something we do….

We study hard to get our Master, so that we can get recognition, good job, good salary…so this is not intention? We work so that we can get money/salary…

We work hard so that we can get salary increment and promotion…

We do donation, so that we can hope to get a better life, retribution etc

We pray to god, so that we can get blessing…

Even if we go and die, we also seek for something, either to get away from the trouble, to be peaceful, etc (except for sickness deatch)…

So don't tell me that we do thing and don't look for returns…

No matter what we do, we always need to look for returns, if not; there will be no purpose of doing something…

We love someone, so that in hope to get back the love from the person we love…

This is life…

Anyway, just hope you understand me more…

From, Husband

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Email: Woman

Hm, true and wrong; agree and not agree…. All those you mentioned are arguable statements.

Anyway, I do agree with you, husband and wife needs to treat each other good and with care. That's the purpose of marriage and TWO EQUAL TO ONE.

I'm treating you good but it is the matter of perception and expectation. How to do to make sure I'm doing what you expect from me? That's tough. Isn't it?

From, Wife

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Email: Man

Yes, what you say is true. That is why I always tell you what I expect from you. To let you know my expectation. But whenever I did so, you always say I do things good to you in order to get returns from you. Then like what you say below, if I don't tell you what I expect, how would you know?

So it all come back to the step one… to the things that I said below…everything we do, we are looking for some returns…no matter what…unless you have this type of thinking... it is very difficult to explain to you…

So means all these while you good to me, and then you expect me to good to you also right? Or you good to me and you want me to not good to you?

Of course no right… we need to constantly improve ourselves and try to be nicer and nicer to each other everyday…coz we will be together for very long time… like you sometimes always complain, last time when gf time, I treat you better, etc…no not anymore…so same thing, if everyday we just treat each other like we normally do, there is no more improvement…then our life will be very dull and boring..

Let's take working as example…a company… easier to understand..

Let's say you work very hard everyday and perform very well for the company, work very late each day, earns few millions for the company…

Then what do you expect? Of course there are a few options:

1) So that you have a stable job? But I think most people not looking for this only

2) To get your performance recognized -> how? By getting more bonus

3) Getting a promotion to Manager, GM etc

But let's say, you work very hard and good performance, but your company still treat you the same…means not treating you bad, but no increase in salary, no increase in Bonus, no increase in position…

Of course you will still stay in the company, but for how long? I know you will say wait till they noticed your performance…but how long you will wait?

Do you want to work in that company for all your life? Or if, you got better offer, will you leave?

On the other hand, same thing, for the company,

Every year, they increase your salary, give you a lot (increase) in bonus, or simple, they promote you, do you think they still expect you to do the same job scope you are doing? No right, when they promote you, they expect you to contribute more, have more responsibilities, work more and earn more money for the company…

So the same thing from above, lets take me as a company, everytime I increase my love to you, I treat you nicer, buy you more stuffs (eventhough I know sometimes you don't want or don't need) (lets say this is like company Bonus) or treat you more nicely (promotion), then of course I would expect more contribution (nicer to me, etc) from you, right?

For company, if we don't get what we expect, we can either

1) Change company easily

2) Find other better offer

3) Talk to the boss (not so easy)

But for a marriage we cannot do that right? So of course we have expectation, we would need to share with our partner, right? This is totally different from company - Talk to boss - not so easy but change company is easy…For marriage, talk to wife easier than to change wife right?

Of course you can say that marriage is different from company, we cannot expect too much, wife/husband cannot be promoted…no level…but if we think of how we can further improve our treatment to our partner if they give us more bonus, isn't it makes the relationship more nicer?

Anyway, I know you might not agree with me, as you have different thinking, but just want to express to you how I feel/think. I know you would think love one person does not need to think of return, you love is unconditional, but do you think by just do the normal things we always do and be there for each other will be enough?

From, Husband

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Email: Woman

I need a few more concrete examples of the 'love promotion' that I could do to have you feel you are being love MORE than yesterday, last week, last month, last year…..

From, Wife

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Email: Man

There is no concrete example of everything I said below…because we are human beings with feelings, just do our best everytime… when your partner feedback to you or request you to do something, don't make it in negative way (complaining you or criticizing your ability), but instead take it as a positive feedback for better future relationship improvements… as I believe without feedback, we wouldn't know where we can improve…

From, Husband

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Email: Woman

Ok, no example. But at least when somebody giving feedback, especially who STARTED/ATTEMPT to give feedback, please mind the opening sentence/question, can?

It is very common rule, if question starts with 'could': the answer will either be 'could' or 'couldn't'; if the question starts with 'may': it will be 'may' or 'may not'- there have strong linkage and connection.

We will not provide answer if question ask with 'could you go….' and you answer 'I may not…', at least that's what my school teacher taught me when I was young on grammar.

So my point is: there is a linkage of Q&A, what and how we ask, is what and how we expect the listener to reply. So if we ask blunt, please don't get upset of a blunt reply. This is that simple.

Agree?

From, Wife

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Email: Man

Sometimes it is not so easy to directly say the things that we expect… you need to have the understanding in your heart…and try in your heart…

I cannot just directly tell you , " Dear, I bought you Iphone 4, so I expect you to do this , do that for me' right…

So we ourselves need to have the common sense/understanding in our heart…

Like " Ok, my hubby bought me Iphone 4, all these while, I know he wants me to do this…or he likes me when I do this/that, so I will try to improve myself on that area, or do that things for him more, etc"…

Or "ok, my hubby bought me Iphone 4, and just just say something blunt to me, but because he bought me Iphone 4, so I should not try to argue with him, give in to him, or talk to him nicer way" etc

Anyway, it is very difficult to explain, unless you really understand….

From, Husband

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Email: Woman

This is the thing- I think it shouldn't happen. We cannot expect what other's thinking and pretend we know and turn up do the wrong thing and arguments arise.

In fact, what I mean is the person to start a conversation needs to talk nicely at the 1st place (not to tell the listener up front what he is expecting of course).

Take yesterday argument for example, if you didn't speak out SO LOUD as if I didn't agree with you to get Bank A instead of Bank B, but tell me nicely like: after going through all this, looks like if we get Bank A will be better choice. you think we can still make it this time? Because I feel the $1k maintenance is not supposed to…… (Not straight jump to the conclusion with a little tuning like WHY Bank B? Is sucks!)

If we bring the bad feeling to start a conversation, you think the listener can hold their breath to talk back nicely? Of course she will defense (not to means that's her grandfather bank! - this is even WORSE)

We both need to hold our breath for 3 seconds before start/continue talking. If we can do this, is not even good to us but also will be good to our career. Cool man will think properly before talk out loud; only brainless people talk without thinking. Agree?

From, Wife

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Email: Man

If you say what you say below, then it is very difficult to talk at all.

Sometimes, we just say something that we feel upset or unsatisfied with…as long as it is not a personal attack, the other person should not be so sensitive and upset.

For example, sometimes we also upset and complained about our work issues etc, eg. You can complained about your Boss is bad in this and that, but as we are talking /complained about other parties (not us) , the other partner should not start a personal attack by saying, "No, you should not think like that, you should be patience, this is your work, etc' but instead should say it in a nicer way as you are talking about your partner, not other people.

Same with the Bank, I am upset with Bank B's service so I can complain all I want about Bank B service etc, but I didn't complained about you. I didn't complained about your service not being good or how you do things not good", so you should not be so sensitive and shoot at me. Instead, you can talk nicely saying your opinion (in nicer way) instead of saying "No, you are wrong, or Why don't you say that in the first place, Why don't you check in the first place, I have been using Bank B all these while and don't have problems, why you have problems). All this talking is personal attack, not on the issue anymore.

Sometimes we do upset with some issues, so when this happens, the other party should handle it with care when talking. Not just say, no your thinking is wrong. This is where all the problems started, not because of person who started talking first, but it is the person who follow-up on the talking..

If not, it is totally impossible to have a conversation anymore, coz nobody would want to start a topic.

Like sometimes I complained about my boss, you can nicely say that "No, actually think in a nicer way, he is actually good to you, if compared with other boss, maybe more worst, etc…" and not go saying, "Actually you should change your thinking and attitude, all the company is like that. If you have such attitude, you go any company also same and will always need to change job…".

Both above have same meaning, but in different tone…

Even we are a couple, but we need to know how to talk nicely after a person tells out the feeling, if we cannot tell our frustration to each others, as you know, we have no other people to talk to, so always you and me, so need to know how we can minimize such friction…

And also, as a partner, sometimes when we have conversation, of course sometimes we will have different opinions or we will give suggestions to each other, but sometimes you just cannot accept it and takes it negatively…we should be grateful that our partner is giving out his/her suggestions for better improvements. We should not just say, "I just want to tell you what happened and need you to listen only, no need you to give suggestions.. you don't know what I am facing actually..". Then why have the conversation in the first place? and just want the other person to listen so that you can express out your stress? Then the other party will be very bored, coz he can only listen and cannot feedback…

Anyway, of course no matter what, we need to talk nicely and should not be raising our tone, show impatience, hold breath 3 seconds and talk is good, but unless you can understand the problems here, we are not heading anywhere.

From, Husband

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Email: Woman

I'm not writing a lot because we are not kid anymore, matured enough to think and act; we should know what to do and what don't.

Anyway, I just want to emphasize 1 thing: whatever we do, we speak, we complaint, we compliment, we think, just bear in mind- look at the mirror.

While we are expecting from someone, that someone is also expecting from us.

Of course, it's all depends how we start again. I won't buy if you talk nicely; I will speak shit or vice versa.

You kept controlling my words, my tunes, my expression, if we both can do the same as what we expect, then only is a win-win, if not, forget it because we both face pressure in works, in life.

From, Wife

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Email: Man

Again you are saying I am controlling your words, your tunes, your expression, but since you said you are matured enough to think and act, then you would not be writing such personal negative attack on me.

You said you are matured, then please think why "I am controlling your words, your tunes and your expression?" If you think it in a nice perspective, then you can really understand…

Why I control you and then what I get? Use you as my bullet proof? Use you as my sales tools?

I am trying to control you because ______ ( you please fill in the blanks , coz I cannot think of any negative things that I can write there).

If you ask me, I control your words so that we can have a nice peaceful talk… and again, having nice peaceful talk, what I get?? Again you tell me??

Anyway, I know this is also both of our problems, but at least I am trying to do a change, and the changes I am trying to do is for the good of US (our relationship). Not just, "If cannot, then forget it, or look at the mirror first before talking…" What you expect to get from these type of talking?

From, Husband

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So, who is right or wrong here? Or both also wrong?

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A very long e-mail but I will give you a short answer, coming from a Man.

The Man is not right with his expectations as love in a relationship cannot be equatated to career progression although there are similarities. Love between a husband and wife and children cannot be linked to action and reward all the time, there must be an element of unconditional love but not totally.

In any relationship, there has to be both sides giving and receiving and its is normal for certain sides to think that they are giving more. In additin to this give-and-take, there must also be growth in a relationship. Growth can mean many things to different people but it basically means that you cannot expect to do the same things over and over again. An example would be just 'pak toh' and never get married. The relationship needs goals and objectives to keep it moving forward.

A man or a woman shows his love through their actions cos they love the other party but people show love in different ways. We cannot say, I bring you out and then you cook for me or I buy you an iPhone and you clean the house for a month. This is more like a Master-Slave relationship and not between Husband and Wife.

Before the couple gets married, there has to be expectations on the their roles and responsibilities of both parties. So what were the expectations of the Man and Woman in this instance.

If you ask me there are many unrealised expectations from the Man as he feels that he has given much more in this relationship and the woman has to reciprocated in return. Also, the woman seems to be an introvet whereas the man is more expressive in his feelings which I suspect is one of the contributing factors.

Ask them to talk about their expectations from each other and what they want in the future. I suspect there are many more unresoved issues.

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I am speaking from a woman's point of view. You might think I am a little biased but in this scenario, although I agree that both have communication and expectation problems, I personally feel that the man is a little over in his expectations.

Like CFA said, we cannot equate a marriage expectations to carrier expectations althouth the similarities are there. A relationship between a company and employee can be simply put as i work how much I am paid. However, a relationship between husband and wife should not be measured in this way. There are alot of examples of couples where 1 person is the giving type and the other is the taking type. In a company, there is no such case as single direction giving. If you do not perform, a company will fire you. This is where unconditional love comes in. I have seen a couple where the wife love her man unconditionally and give birth to his children and yet the husband mistreats them and hits them occasionally. When I ask why do you still hang on? She give excuses to protect her hubby still! Although not a good marriage entity, however, my point is, in a marriage, there ARE such thing as unconditional love albeit not totally. However, the elements are there as opposed to a working relationship.

Back to the email. The woman requested for the man to talk nicely when bringin up a dissatisfaction about something so that she can answer in a good manner. However, the man push back saying its not the asker having a problem as he have a right to voice his dissatisfaction any way he pleased as long as he is not pointing it to the wife. I do not agree. IF you want to be answered in a nice way, please say it nicely. ITs common sense. Since the man expects that if he treats his wife good, he expects the wife to return the good will. If this is what he is expecting, shouldn't he practise this? IF you want a nice answer, why wouldn't you ask nicely? HE is saying ... HE can say it anyway he want but his wife cannot answer anyway she pleased! Of course she is answering to him since he is asking HER. There is no way he can claim that his frustration is not pointing to her when ... Well, he IS asking the question to his wife in a harsh manner. What he expect? A docile wife who hovers and says only good stuff ?? His wife needs to control her language in order not to bruise her husbands ego, that's what he wants!

Seriously, if a husband and wife cannot even talk freely, then who else can you do that with?

Also, human needs a place or a pit to vent when they are stressed. Sometimes, we don't want your opinion. Keep them in check till we have vent out all our stresses. After we have vent, THEN only you give your opinion about how we could have changed the scenario if we were to act differently. I think this applies to man as well. You would not want your wife to tell you that you are wrong when you are all out angry and frustrated about your boss being unfair and bad to you during your venting session with your wife. This example can be seen where the man is expecting his wife to talk nicely to him in a more positive way as below excerpt. No one likes to be told they are wrong when they are in a frust mood.

For example, sometimes we also upset and complained about our work issues etc, eg. You can complained about your Boss is bad in this and that, but as we are talking /complained about other parties (not us) , the other partner should not start a personal attack by saying, "No, you should not think like that, you should be patience, this is your work, etc' but instead should say it in a nicer way as you are talking about your partner, not other people.

Another issue, I feel that as husband and wife, a couple should be able to bare all out and discusee anything under the sun and be anyway you want. However, the man is expecting better treatment due to they are husband and wife? I thought you only need to take care of your manners when you are with strangers or others! Oh Boy, I feel sooo ... restricted to be a modus of decorum everytime I need to comment or talk to my hubby about something worrying if my words gonna hurt hus ego! Example below, I think what the wife said is true if indeed he have attitude problem. Why don;t he stop for a sec to think over his wife's comment? Why would he need his wife to sugar coat all sentences uttered? I thought you can always expect honest responds from your partner... at least, that is what I would want from my partner. Not some sugar coated icings!!!

Like sometimes I complained about my boss, you can nicely say that "No, actually think in a nicer way, he is actually good to you, if compared with other boss, maybe more worst, etc…" and not go saying, "Actually you should change your thinking and attitude, all the company is like that. If you have such attitude, you go any company also same and will always need to change job…".

Ok, besides this email comment. My comment about this husband and wife relationship. If the man were to stop for minute and listens to what is his Wife's expectations instead of keep harping on what HE expects from his wife, I think that will be a good place to start thinking. And THEN they can sit down and talk about how each other can meet the other's expectations. No Double standards pls !

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sorry as i've never know that husband-wife relationship can be so complicated...

the wife and husband should sit down calmly and have heart to heart communication instead of point the finger at each other pointlessly...

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unconditional love... we cant control other ppl, we only can do our part the best, how's other react that's their part... everyone has own task, if you think you did your best but your spouse din react the way you want, what you need to do is ask yourself did you doing the right way, instead of telling other what to do... reason is, changing self much much easier than changing others...

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i'm not a christian or buddhist but i'm a free thinker. I was attending my friends' wedding which was conducted by her temple with talk from a well known lama on her wedding day. It happened on the say after i broke up with 1 of my exes and i was asking myself, am I asking for too much ? the answer is all in these 3 video clips. Hope you enjoy listening to it.

Ingredients to a successful relationship

part 1 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO9yjD_j5HI...feature=related

part 2 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kc88LRHFLlY...feature=related

part 3 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8-UJxzJgTs...feature=related

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Well, the above 'conversation' in the emails are unclear on what's the man expect of ' return ' , lets hope its not deliberately deleted before posting it here. Also, the example given by the man about their relationship vs company that he works with wasn't appropriate , or best to describe how he felt, maybe he just isn't good put things down in writing. Friendship is closer example but not company vs employee.

Relationship like this couple will not last long without serious attention to fix it.

unconditional love... we cant control other ppl, we only can do our part the best, how's other react that's their part... everyone has own task, if you think you did your best but your spouse din react the way you want, what you need to do is ask yourself did you doing the right way, instead of telling other what to do... reason is, changing self much much easier than changing others...

This isn't work, as one partner think it is ok to be the ' taker ' forever , and it won't be long til the 'giver 'pack their bag and leave the house if they have no kids or commitment than forbid them to do so.

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this is a cool topic - trying to equalise the marriage to a career.

even with commitment or kids, the giver party can still walk away from the marriage, when it had broken to the irreparable stage or he/she is just too tired and will b happier by leading a new life.

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You can't just walk away if you and your partner have a joint name housing loan with outstanding amount of a million. The one who wish to take over may not financially sound for the loan approval. Let's not mention the complicated issue of the house is appreciating in value or some one new found BF/GF decided they like the premise and want to reverse the course. :girl_devil:

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there are many good reasons to continue a relationship, kids, still having feelings, etc but because of a huge House / Housing Loan is not one of them. There are many options when couples, esp those who are not married but a house together (bad idea) and have a joint housing loan (even worse idea) decide to split but that is a topic for a separate discussion and I don't wish to hijack this thread.

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Actually, we should not count and equalized everything in Mathematics: i buy you RM1k iPhone so you do me 2 moths house chores (which worth RM500 per month for Indonesian maid) etc... :wacko3:

In fact ALL of us should think how we can love our partners more, and not asking what and how our partners should treat us. When both only think about each other, then both will receive more loves from one another. :wub:

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You can't just walk away if you and your partner have a joint name housing loan with outstanding amount of a million. The one who wish to take over may not financially sound for the loan approval. Let's not mention the complicated issue of the house is appreciating in value or some one new found BF/GF decided they like the premise and want to reverse the course. :girl_devil:

materials shall never b the reason to stay on a broken marriage. all parties will suffer, n it will send the negative impact onto the kids if there's any - daily quarrels, cold shoulders, etc. materials can be disposed and the proceeds to be shared equally or according to court order. another way is to reach an agreement and then file for joint petition, then it'll b easier.

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materials shall never b the reason to stay on a broken marriage. all parties will suffer, n it will send the negative impact onto the kids if there's any - daily quarrels, cold shoulders, etc. materials can be disposed and the proceeds to be shared equally or according to court order. another way is to reach an agreement and then file for joint petition, then it'll b easier.

Hi, if we talk about materials ( mainly shelter ) alone, then i agreed with you, but when it make up one of many reasons including kids, oversea spousal work visa and etc, it carries substantial weight to hold you back. My best buddy is one perfect example of this scenario where both of them are more than happy to 'walk off' any day without these string. Both admitted face to face their marriage is biggest mistake of their life. The hubby ( here called A ) contributes multiple times more than his wife ( call B here ) in terms of 'effort' , i.e. wake up 2 hours earlier everyday to prepare breakfast and lunch box for kids, send them to school, rush back from work to pick up kids when B says she will be late ( which happened once or twice a week ), prepare dinner for all, fixing household stuff, pay more on household expenses and the list go on. I wondering if i been doing right thing to advise A the positive value to keep their marriage every time he told me over the phone he's going to divorce her.

why email ar? cannot tok face to face? the communication method is already wrong... don't wan to say who wrong or right...

When you don't want to talk, you put it down in writings. i wrote to my missus too sometimes, when i expect her to have serious thought of what we discussed. Knowing that its not going to solve the problems when we discussed face to face, she likes her 'deny' and 'ignore' button which work very well to cut the conversation right away.

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materials shall never b the reason to stay on a broken marriage. all parties will suffer, n it will send the negative impact onto the kids if there's any - daily quarrels, cold shoulders, etc. materials can be disposed and the proceeds to be shared equally or according to court order. another way is to reach an agreement and then file for joint petition, then it'll b easier.

Hi, if we talk about materials ( mainly shelter ) alone, then i agreed with you, but when it make up one of many reasons including kids, oversea spousal work visa and etc, it carries substantial weight to hold you back. My best buddy is one perfect example of this scenario where both of them are more than happy to 'walk off' any day without these string. Both admitted face to face their marriage is biggest mistake of their life. The hubby ( here called A ) contributes multiple times more than his wife ( call B here ) in terms of 'effort' , i.e. wake up 2 hours earlier everyday to prepare breakfast and lunch box for kids, send them to school, rush back from work to pick up kids when B says she will be late ( which happened once or twice a week ), prepare dinner for all, fixing household stuff, pay more on household expenses and the list go on. I wondering if i been doing right thing to advise A the positive value to keep their marriage every time he told me over the phone he's going to divorce her.

As much as I love to agree, sometimes staying together for the sake of it may not be the best thing for your child.

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From the email above, each party has certain aspect that I would agree with.

I agree with the husband, that wife should no matter how, communicate in a gentle tone, especially when the husband needs support and acknowledgement. Indeed, if one's working attitude is right, any company, any boss will do, but the wife should put this fact in a gentle way, and not the harsh tone. Everyone has its capability, the wife is bold and assertive but the husband may not. Every fact can be conveyed in a different tone, different way, whichever suits the person the best.

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This is what I think:

Men always think if there is problem then he will suggest solution. Women always emotional. In this case, the men equal relationship with career/business, it might not be completely wrong because thats Mars thinking. Women being venus, gets emotional and will use the resentful words like 'look at the mirror' that is just childish fights/remarks.

There's too much negative in this conversations and for the women, its more like want to win the arguements than to improve and solve the communication problem IMHO. It is good for a men to tell what he expect don't you think? Even if he think of return of some sorts like for the wife to treat him better, he tells you straight. So you know what he is expecting and the wife can negotiate with the husband, if the wife can't fulfill then tell him your feeling and why you can't? Maybe his request, makes you feels like a slaves and you think that way, so tell him also and explain to him why you have such feelings.Throw him another question, how not to make you feel like slaves but still able to meet his expectations. Tell him your expectations too and how you wish it to be done.

I am a women too, I love my husband dearly, i treat him well, cook for him, wash clothes, do the housechores, nag him, etc and what's my return? So that my husband continues to love me, pamper me, and so that he is a happy men and I am a happy women and I love what I do for him. There is always give and take and there is no give and no take right? There is no such thing as you just give and you don't want anything back seriously!

Moreover there is always his and her situation and this is life. For example, there's plumbing problem, or the light bulb already burnt. You call your husband to fix it. Its his thing to do. Your husband is hungry and you are not a good cook, but you'll cook him a maggie mee still? Its your area of duty. There is nothing as equal men and women la. So try to understand each other, compromise and fine tune.

I remember everytime there is arguement btwn me and hubby, I am so emotional I become childish, I cry and talk negative and he is just talking about solution, and I am hurt because he don't talk the same language as me. I am talking feelings, he is talking solution. But somehow it came to a point, yes he is right. Whats the point of crying and feeling bad, when if there is a solution that both of us agree, then there wont be same problem in the future, if the same arguement arise, we modify the solution, improve, make it better. Thats how you grow, there No Who Win, Who loose, Who Wrong and Who right. Fine tune, improve and try to understand each other better.

Hope i am not out of topic wahahahah and don't offend anyone

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Sorry if i'v sort of hijack this issue .. I am curious, if the ladies do these ..

1- Do not wish people to visit you at home, friends esp ILs and if they are outside ur home, you would show a sulking face when you greet ur family in?

2- Immediately change sofa set covers, mop floor, clean entire house, etc after they leave?

Well, i having big fights over this issues ... I openly welcome people coming to my house, esp their visits are purposely to see my bbgal/ granddaughter. Everytime, when i go back home (Alone), my parents would ask why is my wife so "mean-hark"/ dark-faced .. nowadays, they wont come over cos they are afraid to see her face sulking so long ..

How do i overcome this .. no point asking me to talk to her cos we usually ended with big fights.

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Sorry if i'v sort of hijack this issue .. I am curious, if the ladies do these ..

1- Do not wish people to visit you at home, friends esp ILs and if they are outside ur home, you would show a sulking face when you greet ur family in?

2- Immediately change sofa set covers, mop floor, clean entire house, etc after they leave?

Well, i having big fights over this issues ... I openly welcome people coming to my house, esp their visits are purposely to see my bbgal/ granddaughter. Everytime, when i go back home (Alone), my parents would ask why is my wife so "mean-hark"/ dark-faced .. nowadays, they wont come over cos they are afraid to see her face sulking so long .. at times, divorce do float thru my mind but i love my 1year gal very much thus i hv to tolerate this.

How do i overcome this .. no point asking me to talk to her cos we usually ended with big fights.

1) I kinda do... i know this irritates the hell out of my hubby, especially if its his parents, but usually this is due to unexpected visits, or perhaps a visit that they did not confirm what time they are arriving. I am very well planned and systematic person, and if someone disturbs my routine, i get upset...

2) If the house looks dirty, i will sweep/wipe the floor... cos my baby crawls all over mah, and my ILs dont hv the habit of wiping their wet hands, instead will let the water drop around,and later cause dark marks when we step on it, and i will also wipe my baby's face cos his family will be kissing him all over (even hubby agrees to this)

i dont think divorce is the answer la, maybe there is something abt unexpected visitors that your wife doesnt like.. haiz, i am like your wife oso, and i know i am this way becos his family dont behave very frenly to me either.. they will only be happy to see their grandson,many occasions just ignore my presence there, and never bothered to help when i was pregnant last time, and now i am pregnant with no.2, but they never ask abt my health or anything... so how u want me to react? I complain abt this to hubby many times, but i think he is tired to listen to that already... and i know it is not under his control.. so my policy is, i dont complain, u dont complain.. be normal la

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Sorry if i'v sort of hijack this issue .. I am curious, if the ladies do these ..

1- Do not wish people to visit you at home, friends esp ILs and if they are outside ur home, you would show a sulking face when you greet ur family in?

2- Immediately change sofa set covers, mop floor, clean entire house, etc after they leave?

Well, i having big fights over this issues ... I openly welcome people coming to my house, esp their visits are purposely to see my bbgal/ granddaughter. Everytime, when i go back home (Alone), my parents would ask why is my wife so "mean-hark"/ dark-faced .. nowadays, they wont come over cos they are afraid to see her face sulking so long .. at times, divorce do float thru my mind but i love my 1year gal very much thus i hv to tolerate this.

How do i overcome this .. no point asking me to talk to her cos we usually ended with big fights.

1. Nope. I put on my poker face and wait till they are gone before we sit down and talk. By putting on a sulking face, I'm just making my spouse look bad ("such a childish wife, not hospitable, etc"). In a marriage, it is no longer about how people see that one person but how they view your spouse as well. There have been instances where I'm super pissed at my hubby (unrelated to the guest visiting issue) and he comes home with a guest. Instead of staying or looking pissed, I just act normal, friendly and all. After the guest is gone, I unleash la...but not in a bad way. :p

2. Urm, not really. It depends - usually I clean the house before they come and tidy it up after they are gone (glasses, etc). I'll save the moping and "heavy" stuff to the next day.

The thing is that many forget that most of the time, in-laws come over to spend time with their children and in your case, grandchildren. By being passive aggressive (showing black face and etc), we are telling them to stay away which isn't good for everyone. At least they are staying over for a couple hours - try having your in-laws stay in a 70 sqm apartment with you for two months (24/7) as in my case with the hubs when I was preggers. My parents can be a real pain as well but my HB takes it all in his stride - he is always friendly and cordial even though he's annoyed. When he needs a breather, he goes out - excuse is to throw the trash and etc. He used to complain to me about it and I - like Q's HB - got tired and told him, "What do you want me to do? They are my parents, Eva is their granddaughter and you're my HB. They are like that. You can rant to me when you can't take it but at the end of the day, there is only so much that I can do. Just tahan loh - they'll be gone soon."

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:sauer2:

Letter to MAN:

1st: I dont agree. Everything you give you expect return. If you want so kira. Please write it down to

the book. Just ask yourself. What about Mother, If mother want to kira everything You return whole life also not enough la dude!

2nd: If you want to so kira, you wont life happily because you expect return in everything!!!!!!!!!

3rd: I will be afraid of you. Before I drink the coffee you belanja. I will start thinking this prick will expect return from me.

What is the return he want. Maybe a cup of coffee for a CAR? He so kira sure want earn one.

....................... & ETC

To the GIRL:

1st: OOOOoo.. THis is why when he want to take you to bed on the firstime. He spend you Movie, He spend you dinner & hotel room la. OOOooo........ Hoping for return ma... " Joking "

2nd: Dont have too many expectation or too dependant on your husband. Earn you own money, when you spend also happier.

3rd: Dont be too saddism la.. be more cheerful. Don't use email.

To both:

WTF reason that you both can't sit together and talk?

Do you know that facial expression plays sOOOOoOooo important role?

It is the facts that MAN & WOMAN is totally a different creature.

Example:

MAN is Carnivorous always wanna eat meat

WOMAN is herbivourous always eat grass only :lol:

But sometimes you all have to act a bit la.

MAN eat grass a bit WOMAN eat a bit meat.

Both happy lo.

Do you know how long does it take to have FAITH for you & him to be husband & wife?

It take LIFES...... maybe reincarnation & reincarnation & reincarnation.

Since you both has made a decision to have the another 1/2 life together already.

Think for solution. NOT WHO IS RIGHT OR WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If RIGHT & WRONG is important to any of you. Then you both got problem.

Because there is no right or wrong in a relationship.

Like your MAN is super kira. You can disagree but doesnt mean he is wrong! Maybe he is born to be like that.

Since baby maybe his mom use 555 book kira with him already. Makes him today. hahah Kidding.

So you have to slowly understand him more la babe.

To be husband & wife is easy. But to live together is the challenge.

You both really need to work it out. Every Husband & Wife also has this problem one.

Only the matter of time. When sex isnt tat exiting anymore, when having a new home isnt that

exiting anymore, when kids come out to crack the wall, when parents and sibling comes with

problems. BUT! What is that you both cant work it out! ? Even your body also can give people already

la.. what else you both cant talk it out?

Good luck to you both.

Regards,

AdrianQ

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Sorry if i'v sort of hijack this issue .. I am curious, if the ladies do these ..

1- Do not wish people to visit you at home, friends esp ILs and if they are outside ur home, you would show a sulking face when you greet ur family in?

2- Immediately change sofa set covers, mop floor, clean entire house, etc after they leave?

Well, i having big fights over this issues ... I openly welcome people coming to my house, esp their visits are purposely to see my bbgal/ granddaughter. Everytime, when i go back home (Alone), my parents would ask why is my wife so "mean-hark"/ dark-faced .. nowadays, they wont come over cos they are afraid to see her face sulking so long .. at times, divorce do float thru my mind but i love my 1year gal very much thus i hv to tolerate this.

How do i overcome this .. no point asking me to talk to her cos we usually ended with big fights.

1. Nope. I put on my poker face and wait till they are gone before we sit down and talk. By putting on a sulking face, I'm just making my spouse look bad ("such a childish wife, not hospitable, etc"). In a marriage, it is no longer about how people see that one person but how they view your spouse as well. There have been instances where I'm super pissed at my hubby (unrelated to the guest visiting issue) and he comes home with a guest. Instead of staying or looking pissed, I just act normal, friendly and all. After the guest is gone, I unleash la...but not in a bad way. :p

2. Urm, not really. It depends - usually I clean the house before they come and tidy it up after they are gone (glasses, etc). I'll save the moping and "heavy" stuff to the next day.

The thing is that many forget that most of the time, in-laws come over to spend time with their children and in your case, grandchildren. By being passive aggressive (showing black face and etc), we are telling them to stay away which isn't good for everyone. At least they are staying over for a couple hours - try having your in-laws stay in a 70 sqm apartment with you for two months (24/7) as in my case with the hubs when I was preggers. My parents can be a real pain as well but my HB takes it all in his stride - he is always friendly and cordial even though he's annoyed. When he needs a breather, he goes out - excuse is to throw the trash and etc. He used to complain to me about it and I - like Q's HB - got tired and told him, "What do you want me to do? They are my parents, Eva is their granddaughter and you're my HB. They are like that. You can rant to me when you can't take it but at the end of the day, there is only so much that I can do. Just tahan loh - they'll be gone soon."

in all fairness, i think generally men are able to hide their emotions much better than ladies! LOL

Kronie,

i think what may help is that instead of having ur missus to do the chores once they are gone, why dont u pick up the broom n clean the house to help out? Like it or not, parents, in laws, frens and relatives do overstay their welcome once in awhile so this could perhaps affect her very much needed napping time... Try limiting such visits and taking over more of her chores for the moment and i am pretty sure she will react much differently the next time, good luck :)

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Sorry if i'v sort of hijack this issue .. I am curious, if the ladies do these ..

1- Do not wish people to visit you at home, friends esp ILs and if they are outside ur home, you would show a sulking face when you greet ur family in?

2- Immediately change sofa set covers, mop floor, clean entire house, etc after they leave?

Well, i having big fights over this issues ... I openly welcome people coming to my house, esp their visits are purposely to see my bbgal/ granddaughter. Everytime, when i go back home (Alone), my parents would ask why is my wife so "mean-hark"/ dark-faced .. nowadays, they wont come over cos they are afraid to see her face sulking so long .. at times, divorce do float thru my mind but i love my 1year gal very much thus i hv to tolerate this.

How do i overcome this .. no point asking me to talk to her cos we usually ended with big fights.

1. Nope. I put on my poker face and wait till they are gone before we sit down and talk. By putting on a sulking face, I'm just making my spouse look bad ("such a childish wife, not hospitable, etc"). In a marriage, it is no longer about how people see that one person but how they view your spouse as well. There have been instances where I'm super pissed at my hubby (unrelated to the guest visiting issue) and he comes home with a guest. Instead of staying or looking pissed, I just act normal, friendly and all. After the guest is gone, I unleash la...but not in a bad way. :p

2. Urm, not really. It depends - usually I clean the house before they come and tidy it up after they are gone (glasses, etc). I'll save the moping and "heavy" stuff to the next day.

The thing is that many forget that most of the time, in-laws come over to spend time with their children and in your case, grandchildren. By being passive aggressive (showing black face and etc), we are telling them to stay away which isn't good for everyone. At least they are staying over for a couple hours - try having your in-laws stay in a 70 sqm apartment with you for two months (24/7) as in my case with the hubs when I was preggers. My parents can be a real pain as well but my HB takes it all in his stride - he is always friendly and cordial even though he's annoyed. When he needs a breather, he goes out - excuse is to throw the trash and etc. He used to complain to me about it and I - like Q's HB - got tired and told him, "What do you want me to do? They are my parents, Eva is their granddaughter and you're my HB. They are like that. You can rant to me when you can't take it but at the end of the day, there is only so much that I can do. Just tahan loh - they'll be gone soon."

in all fairness, i think generally men are able to hide their emotions much better than ladies! LOL

Kronie,

i think what may help is that instead of having ur missus to do the chores once they are gone, why dont u pick up the broom n clean the house to help out? Like it or not, parents, in laws, frens and relatives do overstay their welcome once in awhile so this could perhaps affect her very much needed napping time... Try limiting such visits and taking over more of her chores for the moment and i am pretty sure she will react much differently the next time, good luck :)

u nailed it.. women are so emotional, and show it easily

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LOL

i dont blame the wife, the typical scenario after the guests have left,

W : Dear, can u help to tidy up?

H : Sure, but leave it there 1st, i will clear them after this

W : Can u do them now? the house is in a mess! (sounding louder)

H : Ok ok, chill babe, i will do it, just give me some time to settle this 1st (settle something or dunno what la...)

W : HMMPHH!!!! black charcoal sour prune face comes out n she did everything herself

H : Dear, let me do la, y r u doing all by urself???

W : NVM!!!!

H : HAR??? (visibly blur)

W: SILENT TREATMENT FOR THE WEEK

LOLXXX

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Well, they are here for only 1hr or so and not staying overnite.

BTW, i am the one who is doing the cleaning, etc. Of cos she does helps out but wht annoys me this way she reacts. Eventhough her family seldom comes, which i dont mind if they do .. i dont show dark sulking faces.

FYI, they dont come often .. i would say .. maybe once in 3 or 4months ...

Also i am the one who does the mopping etc .. i know it good to be clean but do you really need to change sofa covers immediately?

This will make my family thinks they are dirty, etc ...

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